The Burnt Toast Podcast [PREVIEW] There are No Gold Stars for Packing Light!
It's time for your Indulgence Gospel! And today we’re talking all things Fat Travel!
We’ll be answering your questions, sharing travel hacks, and just getting into the nitty gritty of how to be a fat person going places in the world.
And so much more!
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CREDITS
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You’re listening to Burnt Toast!
We are Virginia Sole-Smith and Corinne Fay, and it’s time for your Indulgence Gospel. And today we’re talking all things Fat Travel!
We’ll be answering your questions, sharing travel hacks, and just getting into the nitty gritty of how to be a fat person going places in the world.
This is a paywalled episode. That means to hear the whole thing you’ll need to be a paid Burnt Toast subscriber. Subscriptions are $7 per month or $70 for the year.
If you’re already a paid subscriber, you can add on a subscription to Big Undies, Corinne’s newsletter about clothes, for 20% off.
This transcript contains affiliate links. Shopping our links is another great way to support Burnt Toast!
Episode 162 Transcript
Virginia
Okay, so I have a quick vent—a rant, if you will—before we get into questions, about being a fat person in public. Which is this: In the last three weeks, I have been mistaken for pregnant twice by strangers.
This is something that has happened my whole life, as you know, as we’ve discussed on the pod and in essays many times. And then, it didn’t happen for a long time. And I thought I was out, Corinne. I thought I was done with it. I thought I was old enough and fat enough that I could just present as a fat lady past her reproductive prime.
But apparently not.
So the first time happened while we were on the platform at Grand Central Station. We were taking the kids to the Natural History Museum and we’re walking along a crowded platform, and this lady rushes up to me. And at first she says, “I love your green Birkenstocks!” So I liked her, because that is an appropriate way to talk to people. Compliment their shoes. And then she said, “You have such a beautiful family!” And I was like, “Thank you! Sure!” I won’t get into the fact that this is actually my ex-husband, you don’t need all that information. You’re right. We are a beautiful family.
And then she looks at me, and she goes, “And another girl on the way!”
Corinne
Oh my God!
Virginia
And I was like, “Where?!”
Corinne
Watch out!
Virginia
And then I realized what she meant. And so I just said, “Oh no, just fat.” And then she goes, “Oh, I’ve been there.” And this was a very thin person. I was like, I don’t know that you have?
Corinne
That is a wild thing to say.
Virginia
But I was proud of myself because my kids were there and I was proud that I just really took it in stride and was like, “Nope, just fat!” Like, no apology. Just kept walking down the platform. So that was the first one.
Then the second one was Sunday night. I was in my driveway, in the privacy of my driveway. My mailbox is across the street from my house, so I was at the end of my driveway about to cross the street to go get my mail. And a lady stopped her car, leaned her head out of her car—a woman I have never seen before—and she said, “Your garden is so beautiful! And are you expecting?”
Corinne
I don’t like that at all.
Virginia
And look, I don’t want to be ageist, I don’t want to stereotype. But both of these comments came from over-enthusiastic Boomer ladies who were trying to be complimentary and appreciative of me in these ways. But no. Just talk about people’s shoes and their gardens! Don’t talk about their bodies.
Corinne
And if you had said yes for that second one, then what?
Virginia
She would have been like, “When are you due? Oh, my God, that’s amazing!”
Corinne
That’s it? That’s the whole conversation?
Virginia
I think? I mean, I said, no.
Corinne
She’s not like, trying to give you baby clothes?
Virginia
No, no, no, no, no. She was like, “I live up the road. I’m Vivian.” We’ve never met. She’s not a neighbor I know. She was like, “I just always love your house when I drive by,” which is very lovely. I have done that if I see a neighbor outside I don’t know, and I like their house, I’ll stop and be like, “I love your garden.” But we don’t know each other in a commenting on my stomach way! There are very few people who know me in a commenting on my stomach way. I think that list is limited to my six-year-old honestly.
Corinne
I do think the takeaway here is that you look very young. As someone in their 40s, I feel like it’s flattering that all these people think you are 25 and pregnant.
Virginia
I mean, they don’t say, “You look 25.”
Corinne
You’re glowing!
Virginia
Maybe I was sweaty?
It’s such an annoying phenomenon that I know people in all body sizes experience, so I wanted to discuss it again. In fact, as we’ve talked about—the fatter you are, the less it happens. But it is such a weird way that people insert themselves into someone else’s experience of their body. And then they always feel awkward and you’re expected to make it less awkward. So I was really proud—when the second lady said, “Are you expecting?” I just said, “No.” And then I just stood there. And she goes, “oh, well, I just love your house and I’m sorry I said that.” And I was like, “uh huh,” and then I just went to my mailbox. I’m just going to let you sit in your discomfort. Marinate in that awkward moment, Vivian. Just marinate in the discomfort.
I just —I have so many people I love who have struggled with infertility, who, don’t have kids, want them, or whatever. You don’t know what you’re commenting on when you talk about someone’s body in that way. Or maybe someone is pregnant and they just don’t want to share that with a stranger driving by their house. You should be able to check your goddamn mail.
Corinne
Yeah, that’s what I was getting at, too. Like, what is the conversation they imagine happening here? Do you really need to talk to strangers about when their due date is?
Virginia
That’s just not the level of our connection I want with a woman driving by my house yelling at me from her car.
Corinne
The audacity.
Virginia
And then I’m like, what has changed? Because, like I said, it wasn’t happening for such a long time. I’m a little worried it might be our favorite Target sports bra, because I think that’s what I was wearing, as a crop top, in both instances. But I’m not going to stop wearing that.
Embracing the Midlife Crisis Crop Top
I am so excited to share with you Virginia Sole-Smith’s style questionnaire…
a year ago · 202 likes · 23 comments · Corinne Fay and Virginia Sole-Smith
Corinne
Well, I don’t know. I was going to say maybe you were spending more time in public, around strangers.
Virginia
In my driveway, checking my mail? I live in a very rural neighborhood, too. I need to underscore, we are not a neighborhood with foot traffic. Like, I can check my mail 30 times a month and not see a human being while I do it. This was not a normal experience. It was very weird.
1. Flying While Fat
Virginia
All right I feel like the big travel anxiety when you’re traveling fat is airplanes, so we’re going to start with a bunch of flying questions.
This first person writes,
When do you request a seatbelt extender on a plane? I’ve only traveled a handful of times as a large fat person at the time, I didn’t even know I needed an extender until I walked onto my first flight and the attendant, who was amazing, said discreetly, “ma’am, for your comfort,” and handed it to me. But on subsequent flights, I’ve been snickered at when I requested it while already sitting down in my seat. Should I do it at the ticket counter? At the gate? Do you wait until you board? What is the etiquette here?
Corinne, teach us about seatbelt extenders!
Corinne
Okay. What I do is I request it while boarding. So when I’m boarding, the moment I see a flight attendant, which is usually right after you step onto the plane from the gate.
Virginia
Yeah, from the from the tunnel thing onto the plane.
Corinne
I say, “May I please have a seat extender?” Because they’re usually stashed up there, they have them in one of their little storage cubbies, and they’ll just hand you one. And if the flight attendants are not there for some reason, then I still try to grab one or talk to one before I sit down.
Virginia
Okay. So you try to sort it out before you’re in your seat.
Corinne
Yeah, otherwise I just feel like it takes too long.
Virginia
Then you feel sort of trapped. You’re like, now I’m in my seat and what if they don’t bring it? That feels very anxiety-provoking.
Corinne
I have never had anyone snicker at me, so I am sorry that that happened to this person. That’s awful. And sometimes they do preempt you, like they see you and will hand you one.
Virginia
We did hear from lots of folks saying that you should buy your own and travel with it. Is that something you do?
Corinne
I have not bought one. My understanding is that different airlines use different seatbelt designs, so I think if you buy one, it won’t work across all airlines. But if you always fly on the same airline, you could probably figure it out.
Virginia
That’s a good idea.
Corinne
And I would also just say, please don’t steal them because people need them.
Virginia
Be a team player.
Corinne
Yeah, save them for me. When I am disembarking, I just bring it up with me and hand it to someone.
Virginia
This should just be a standard thing you could check when you were booking your flight, the same way you can say you need a kosher meal. And then they would just know to bring it to you at your seat. I don’t see how that would create more work for the airlines. I mean, obviously I know nothing about airline workflow process, but it does feel like the stress of the passenger having to get on the plane and ask at the point when the flight attendant is at their busiest trying to get everybody’s stupid rolling bags to fit in the overhead bins, they also have to scramble around and find seatbelt extenders—it’s just creating stress for everybody. The passenger is panicked, the flight attendant is like, oh wait, let me do that, too.
Why not have it be known ahead of time and then maybe the person who scans your boarding pass hands it to you as you get on the plane.
Corinne
I do think that airplane seatbelt lengths vary. So, there are some where you might need one, and some where you might not.
Virginia
Well, that’s nice. We definitely like some grey area.
Corinne
It’s totally unpredictable. I have always wondered if they might run out, but that’s never happened to me.
Virginia
I guess, what’s the worst case scenario. They’re not going to let you fly without a seat belt, so you’d have to get off the plane?
Corinne
I don’t know. Or maybe they could grab one from another plane. I have no idea.
Virginia
It feels like this is a process that could be improved upon, is what we’re saying.
Corinne
That’s why you ask right when you get on the plane. What about you? Do you have a routine?
Virginia
I have not needed one yet so I have not navigated this. I will say, when I was flying in Asia and we flew a local Thai airline, the seats were the tiniest I’ve ever been in and I had a moment of like, oh, am I gonna need this? And we’ll talk about that more, because there are some questions about traveling in Asia, and I have some thoughts. But no, I haven’t navigated it personally yet.
Corinne
I remember a few years ago, I was flying somewhere and literally, on the way there, I was on a super new plane and didn’t need a seat belt extender—which was my usual at the time. And then on the way back, I was on a really old plane, and was like, “Oh, I now need a seat belt extender.” Like, it was over the course of a one week trip.
Virginia
That’s bananas. It’s just good for all of us to know the best practice. And I would also say, I can understand buying one to have with you as a backup. Like, you still ask to use theirs but worst case scenario, you would know you had one. That just makes sense, if that’s accessible to folks. We can link to some options in the transcript, because a few people did send me links for ones they like.
And another listener did chime in, this was in the Substack chat where we were talking about this stuff, and said,
I’m in Canada and have flown WestJet and Air Canada. When requesting a seatbelt extender, I’ve always asked for one after sitting down at my seat. I usually have to wait a few minutes—they’re a busy bunch—but they have brought me one no problem before the safety demonstration.
So just good to know that you should not feel like you are putting people out or being weird by making this request. Like this is their job to make sure you are safe on the airplane.
All right. Tips for dealing with tiny bathrooms on airplanes.
Corinne
I feel like my tip for this is to not go to the bathroom on the plane.
Virginia
Dehydrate so hard.
Corinne
Other than that, I don’t think I have any tips.
Virginia
They’re so awful. They’re so small. I have so many fears of being stuck or dying in an airplane bathroom. I’m not afraid of planes in general. I’m not afraid of flying. I’m not a nervous flyer, which I’m grateful for, because I do have a fear of heights. Somehow my brain has decided that the planes don’t leave the ground.
But when I go to the airplane bathroom, for some reason, I’m then like, “You are miles in the sky.”
Corinne
Wow. Fascinating.
Virginia
It triggers my stress. Well, one tip, I will say—and we’re going to get into this in the next question—but it is true that business class on long haul flights will probably have a bigger bathroom. So even if you’re not flying business class, if the economy bathroom is too small for your body, I think you have every right to say “I need to use a bigger bathroom,” and find out if there is a bigger one.
I’m not saying it’s going to be palatial, but it’s a slightly different layout up there on some business class flights.
Corinne
I would be curious if people have other tips, too.
Virginia
Yeah. I mean, to me, it’s like, go at the gate and then do your best. And if you’re traveling with small children who need you to take them to the airplane bathroom, it’s just a whole level of hell. I’m Sorry. My solution there is, we just don’t close the door when a kid uses the airplane bathroom. And I’m sorry everybody!!!
I’m thankful my children are now old enough they can go by themselves. But when I was with a three-year-old on a plane, I couldn’t get me and her in the airplane bathroom and close the door. It was not gonna happen. So I just kind of blocked her body as much as I could while she went. I’m sure that was revolting for everybody nearby.
Corinne
That is such a nightmare.
Virginia
What else can I do? There’s not room for me and her in the bathroom.
Corinne
Totally fair. It could also be a good reason to book non-direct flights, if you’re like, “I could go three hours without using a restroom, but not seven.”
Virginia
I’m also such a skeptic of the non-direct flight, though, because of the inevitable travel shenanigans that result.
I also truly wonder about those weird pee bag things people use at rock concerts. Do you know about this?
Corinne
What? What do you mean? What do you mean by pee bag?
Virginia
It’s like… Stadium Pal or something. I think that one is for people with penises, but they have them for people with vulvas too.
Corinne
I’ve seen those things that will let people with vulvas pee standing up?
Virginia
Yeah. And then there’s like a bag that attaches to your leg. There’s like a catheter in a bag so you can just pee into the bag.
Look, have I ever done it? I have not. Would I ever want to do it? I would not.
Corinne
But it’s an option.
Virginia
It is an option. I know people have used them for really long road trips, if they were worried about being able to stop.
Corinne
This is fascinating. I gotta look into this.
Virginia
It’s a thing that exists. I cannot offer more notes about it, but it is an option.
Best airlines for fat passengers? And: Is it worth buying two economy seats or one first or business class seat?
Corinne
Well, the best airline is Southwest, because they will let you book two tickets and will either refund you one or there’s also a way to book it without paying for both upfront. But I think you have to talk to someone on the phone or something like that.
Virginia
I mean, of course. But why is everyone not doing this?
Corinne
I don’t know. At other airlines, the policy is usually if you are encroaching on someone else’s space, then you have to buy two seats. But they won’t refund you and it’s hard to buy two seats and how are you supposed to know beforehand whether or not you’re encroaching on someone else’s space?
Virginia
I guess we can kind of assume that if you’re flying economy, we’re all encroaching on everybody’s space because the way they design their planes—but then it’s gross that you’re expected to pay for their design flaws!
A listener suggested fly Economy Plus and get an aisle seat, and that is usually my go-to. I’m actually okay on a window seat, too. There are pros and cons. I’m usually traveling with a kid, too. So if I have two kids, I’ll go on the aisle and they can fight over the window. But Economy Plus does make a big difference for me.
I have also, acknowledging all the privilege involved here, flown business class several times often because my travel is a tax write-off for work so I can justify the expense. And then in one case, we saved credit card points for four years in order to get tickets to Thailand.
Virginia Sole-Smith
·
January 17, 2023
Because doing that kind of long haul flight with children, I was like we need to sleep. It was a transformative experience on so many levels. Everybody is nicer. It is gross that airlines decided to enforce social class hierarchies like this. But if it’s within reach for you, whether through points or if you’re flying for work and you can get the company to pay for it—when it comes to fitting our bodies in these spaces, it’s a very real difference.
Corinne
I have only flown first class once and it did seem a lot better.
Virginia
Yeah, I’ve never flown first. I don’t think.
Corinne
Oh, what’s the difference?
Virginia
Well, if you’re doing international, first is like, you have your own room.
Corinne
Well, I’m literally never flying internationally.
Virginia
Wait you’ve never flown internationally?
Corinne
Not since I was in college.
Virginia
You do not like flying.
Corinne
I hate flying. I guess maybe we should have started with that. I hate flying. I avoid it at all costs. I consider myself someone who doesn’t have a ton of anxiety, but I have so much anxiety about flying. I also get terrible motion sickness. So for most of my life, every flight I’ve been on, I’ve puked.
Virginia
That’s horrible.
Corinne
And I don’t fit in the seats. So it’s just kind of a nightmare for me. It’s a horrible situation. But it does mean that I have a lot of systems where I’m like, “I’m flying Southwest. I’m booking two seats. I’m getting there early.” I have a whole system for how I block off the other seat.
Virginia
Well, if you are ever to go somewhere internationally, because I don’t believe Southwest flies internationally—
Corinne
Very limited, yeah.
Virginia
I would recommend saving up for business class, because it will have a huge difference in the experience. It’s gross to me how much nicer it is and how inaccessible that is.
If you’re flying an airline where you’ll have to buy two economy seats, I would definitely check the price on one business class seat, because it might not be a huge difference. I think the overall experience of business class, again, as gross as it is that this is the way they’ve set it up, you will be treated more respectfully. I bet they will find your seatbelt extender a lot faster. Like, all of that will be better. And again, as I mentioned, on long haul flights, the bathroom was bigger. I was like, wow, truly, they have everything up here.
Corinne
The most amazing thing to me about the first class seats was that there is space between the seats, you know? The armrests are like six inches wide or whatever. That just makes such a difference to not have to be squashed against someone.
Virginia
It’s wild. It’s like colonialism never left, it just became airplanes. So yeah, airplane travel is really stressful. Do you have any other airplane travel systems that you are big on that we want to share with folks?
Corinne
My biggest tips are, fly Southwest and book yourself two seats. You do have to get there early if you do that, because you have to go to the check-in part and they give you a little ticket that says this seat is reserved to put on your extra seat.
Virginia
Does Southwest not assign seats?
Corinne
Oh, yeah, no. Southwest doesn’t assign seats. I guess you didn’t know that. They also don’t have first class or business class.
Virginia
Well that’s a more democratic process all around and I respect that.
Corinne
You get randomly assigned a boarding group. So if you have the extra seat thing, you pre-board, so you get on first and choose your seat, and save the other one.
Virginia
But then give everyone looks so they know it’s really taken.
Corinne
You do have to be like, “No, I have an extra seat.” And a couple times that I’ve done it, people have been like, “IS like a dog going to be sitting here? Like, is this reserved for like a pet?” And I’m always like, no. It is also nice for the person who gets to sit in the row with you.
Virginia
I was going to say, like, I mean, there’s this whole thing—and we can link to Aubrey Gordon’s writing about airplanes. The way fat folks are treated on airplanes is appalling, but this system solves for so much of that. Because the person who does share your row will have more room too.
Corinne
It’s better for everyone. It makes so much sense to just do it that way. But you do have to advocate for the seat to stay empty.
Virginia
That part I don’t like. I want Southwest to smooth that out a little bit. Otherwise, I give them a lot of points for being the only airline attempting to get this right.
Post-Recording Note: NAAFA has let us know that Southwest is reconsidering this passenger of size policy, which could be disastrous for fat and disabled passengers! If you haven’t already, please sign their petition here.
2. Fat Travel Gear
Corinne
I’ll read this one.
I’d love to hear recs from other fat folks regarding comfy cross body bags to wear out and about during the day or any backpack recs for personal items.
Virginia
Corinne turned me on to Baggu Crescent bags and I just got the the medium-sized one. I haven’t taken it on a trip yet. I will in a few weeks, but I am obsessed. It is such a good bag. And right after I bought mine, I went back on the website, because now I’m like, “How many colors do I need” They’re so great and they just added so many new colors in the extended strap length. I think it’s a 47-inch strap. The one I have is the regular length, which is like 30-something and I extended it all the way and it works for me, who is a size 18/20, just for reference. But for bigger folks, there are now so many more options. I’m very excited, and considering a second purchase in another color.
Full outfit details here
Corinne
That’s awesome.
Virginia
It’s the perfect size. It can fit a decent-sized water bottle, like a 20-ounce water bottle, your wallet, phone, snacks, my Kobo for my books. It can fit a decent amount of stuff and it’s just really comfortable to wear.
Corinne
I don’t like crossbody bags. I don’t like anything that’s going in between my boobs.
Virginia
For people not watching the video, Corinne was just gesturing.
Corinne
I’m demonstrating.
Virginia
Where the crossbody lands.
Corinne
It just never works with the kind of bras I wear. I hate it. For my personal carry on, or whatever it’s called, I like the LL Bean boat and tote. And that comes in two strap lengths. So, I like the LL Bean boat and tote with the zip top and the longer strap length. And that I can carry over my shoulder. The other thing that I really like about that one for traveling is that it stands up by itself. So it’s really nice for under the seat or whatever.
Virginia
I haven’t used a Boat and Tote on an airplane. I haven’t used it on a boat either, because I’m not a boat person. But I do like a Boat and Tote for a car trip or beach trip. I think this is related to my myriad back issues, but I really don’t like carrying a shoulder tote when I have any amount of walking to do.
Corinne
That’s fair.
Virginia
That is a car-based trip only. So if it’s a long flight and I need more space than my little crossbody bag, I will usually do a crossbody bag with, like, my wallet and my phone, the things I need to be able to reach easily, and then a backpack. And I have one from Walker Family Goods that makes cute colors and it’s very sturdy and has a lot of useful pockets. I like that for my plane day bag.
Corinne
It does get heavy, especially if you’re traveling with a laptop. I will say the one annoying thing about the boat and tote is it doesn’t have interior pockets, so I put a bunch of zipper pouches in them.
Virginia
Walker Family Goods makes a good shoulder tote, too, for people who do like a shoulder tote, and it does have a laptop sleeve and good interior pockets. And I will say, they clearly thought about parents carrying stuff. The tote bag has two internal water bottles slots, which is so useful because I’ll have mine and then my kid gets tired of carrying hers and I have to carry it. It ends up getting heavy. So that’s my critique. But your back strength mileage may be better than mine. But the Baggu bags, I’m so excited about. I’m thinking about getting the large now, too.
Corinne
They’re really cute.
Virginia
It might become a problem. We’ll see. All right, what’s next?
Corinne
What are your favorite carry-on bags? What has lasted the longest, and what do you love the most?
Virginia
We’re talking about suitcases now because we’ve talked about what we’re carrying our water bottles and whatnot in. I am a big fan of the Away hard cases. I have had them for two years. I mean, that brand hasn’t been around long enough for me to have had it for much longer than that. But they are solid. They hold a lot. They they were my first switch to hard-sided cases, and I am a convert. I like the ease the four wheels and the ease of walking them through the airport. They’re very smooth. The mechanics of that are just so smooth.
Corinne
One of my other airplane hacks is that I never don’t check a bag. Also because it’s free with Southwest. But I have a bag from Amazon. It comes in a carryon size and bigger sizes, and also has really smooth wheels and is hard sided. The other thing that I like about it—I was influenced to buy this from Tiktok, I will say—is that I think they call it like trunk style? Where it’s like, basically just the top zips off, so it doesn’t have the zipper in the middle of the suitcase. It opens like a jewelry box. It’s like a box and a top flaps open. I feel like it’s so much better.
Virginia
Isn’t everything kind of stacked on top of each other?
Corinne
Yeah, but it’s only eight inches or whatever.
Virginia
Oh I see! Instead of folding open like a sandwich, like a regular suitcase does, where the two halves fold open and lay side by side. Corinne’s suitcase, opens like a door into the magical cave of your suitcase.
Corinne
It gets less messy when you’re traveling.
Virginia
You could put it on the luggage rack in the hotel and open it, which always defies me with a clamshell style one, because you’re like, well, here’s the luggage rack. But now to actually open my suitcase, I have to put it on the bed.
Corinne
Who has room for that?
Virginia
This is very cool. I did just buy the Away pretty recently. I have no reason to upgrade, but, yeah, intriguing.
Corinne
I do also think it’s like—I forget how much the Away stuff is—but this suitcase is like, $175. I think I was going to buy Away and then I was just like, wait, this is cheaper. I was definitely influenced by some Tiktok person.
Virginia
Let’s talk about the checking bags thing. Because I used to be a ruthless carry on person. And then I realized that was a function of my marriage, and I am liberated now.
Corinne
This is another anxiety thing for me where I’m just, like, “I will pay any amount to have less shit to worry about,” because I have so much other anxiety about traveling.
Virginia
My kid’s dad, he’s a backpacker type. So he’s very good at thinking through how to fit a week’s worth of stuff into a small bag, because that’s what you do if you’re going to go live in the back country. I don’t want to be in the back country. They don’t have flush toilets there. That’s not for me.
So for me, if I’m packing—and again, often if I’m traveling with my kids, but even by myself, I am someone who is comforted having options and having my things. I have a lot of anxiety about being somewhere and not having my things, so I would much rather be able to have a larger suitcase and bring what I need to bring.
And now, I don’t quite understand why everyone tries so hard to carry on. What is the gold star everybody thinks they’re getting for packing light? What is the achievement of packing light?
Corinne
I think it is nice to not have to wait for your suitcase after you get off the plane. It is annoying to have to wait for a checked luggage.
Virginia
That can be an additional 30 minutes.
Corinne
But I can handle that. I would rather wait the 30 minutes, pay the $50 if you have to do that, and not have to lug it through the airport.
Virginia
And then have all your stuff for the whole trip.
Corinne
You get on the plane, you’re literally sweating. You throw out your back trying to get it up into the bins. Just no thank you. No.
Virginia
There was a phase in my life where a man would always offer to lift my suitcase. Those days are done.
Corinne
Because you were pregnant?
Virginia
Right? Maybe now it would happen again if I really lean into my pregnancy vibe.
Corinne
Why not? You might as well.
Virginia
But now I will be lifting it myself and I will be cranky. I’m team check the bag, too. I think it reduces stress. The one exception, I will say, is if you don’t have a direct flight and your odds of getting rerouted are high. Like, Corinne, when I came to see you!
Corinne
I never have a direct flight, because I’m always flying from Albuquerque to Maine, and there are no direct flights.
Virginia
But remember when I came to see you, I did carry on that week, because I was like, “Oh, it’s just me. I think I can do it.” And all we were going to be doing was sitting in a hot spring, so I didn’t feel like I needed a lot of options. And if I had checked my bag, I wouldn’t have had my luggage, because my flights got all messed up. I was able to switch airlines.
Corinne
It did give you more options and that was good.
3. Packing While Fat
Virginia
What are everyone’s favorite shoes for walking and standing around in cities all day?
Corinne
I don’t have great advice for this, because I don’t think I’m super picky, but I like Vejas.
Virginia
I don’t find Vejas give me enough arch support. I like them for the cuteness. But I’m getting ready for this trip to London, and I think I’m gonna bring my Birkenstocks, possibly my cute platform Tevas. And then I’m debating on the sneaker option. I do feel like I’m going to want a sneaker option. And I’m debating between my Vejas or some New Balances.
I find Birkenstocks really comfortable to walk in. Like a good, broken-in pair. Especially for city travel, I am unwilling to totally sacrifice aesthetics in the name of comfort. So I have a hard time going to the truly comfortable shoes.
But Vejas are cute, and they’re definitely super walkable.
Corinne
I will say, I feel like the best thing about driving as opposed to flying, is you can bring as many pairs of shoes as you want. I think I brought like, six pairs.
Virginia
I mean, it’s another reason to check bags. It’s really hard to be a minimal packer about shoes because there might very well be a pair of shoes you’re only gonna wear for one day. I definitely no longer try to bring a cute pair of shoes for dressing up.
Corinne
It’s also the one thing that will make you so miserable, if you fuck it up. I’ll be curious to see what you end up bringing.
Virginia
We’ll see how comfortable they really are, but I did order a pair of Charlotte Stone sneakers.
Corinne
Oh, those are so cute.
Virginia
I want them to thread the needle of the cute and comfy sneaker.
[Post-recording note: They did!!!]
Corinne
Alright,
Non-sweaty travel outfits with pockets, please. I have a trip planned to Europe soon.
Virginia
Okay, I think this person’s thinking summer travel. Europe is so hot in the summer. Since this is for October, I’m also thinking about fall travel. But we can kind of just lump it all in together.
I do feel like this is where you need a really good pair of pants that are not jeans. Like a light pair of pants, because I feel like shorts are sometimes tricky with travel, especially in Europe. If you’re going to be going into the churches, you might feel like you shouldn’t be showing. I don’t know, sometimes Italy can be strict about stuff and shorts can read very American. So I feel like this is where something like a cool barrel pant seems like it would be really ideal.
Corinne
This is like the the Eileen Fisher lantern pants or the Alder Apparel hiking pants. They look nice, but they’re also stretchy and comfortable.
Virginia
I have this old, old pair—I think they’re Gap or Target. I’ve been wearing them so much this summer. They’re just a very light cotton striped drawstring waist pair of flowy, wide leg pants. Something like that I think is really good. A listener suggested LaLa play suits, which is new to me, and so I’m looking them up.
Corinne
Yes, one of my friends has one of these, actually.
Virginia
They’re like a big tunic type top and then a stretchy, wide leg pant.
Corinne
The one thing I’ll say is I think they are just pure polyester. That’s fine. I find polyester to be a little, like, sweaty sometimes. But they’re really cute, and they go up to 2x but I do think it’s like very oversize-y.
Virginia
I’m seeing 3X. Chest, 56 inches. Waist 40 inches. This is a fun recommendation. I feel like a jumpsuit, if it’s a one that you can get easy on and off, is kind of nice, because it’s a whole outfit in one piece. It reduces some decision fatigue.
Virginia
I feel like I’m going to maybe bring for London my Beyond Yoga jogger pants, too, that I’m so obsessed with. Probably for the plane. But I would also wear them in London. Maybe with a cute sneaker. You can be a little dressed up, but still in sweats. I think you can combine those things.
What Virginia wore to fly to London. Outfit details here.
Corinne
How do you handle packing anxiety when you know if you need clothing—something rips, unexpected weather, lost luggage, etc—you can’t just run out and buy something like a straight sized person. I feel like I have to bring my entire wardrobe with me for every single possibility, and it’s emotionally and physically taxing.
Virginia
I mean, as discussed, this is why we’re checking our luggage. This is the number one reason why I’m checking my luggage. I can’t just run out and buy something. I need all my options. I do think planning—so this doesn’t cover the scenarios she’s talking about. This person is talking about rips, weather, or whatever. But planning out loose outfits is very helpful to me when I’m packing. Dacy Gillespie has a great packing PDF to guide you through the packing process. That’s super helpful.
I’ve definitely used that to help me plan outfits and think about if a piece can work in multiple combinations. It can help me feel like I don’t need to pack quite as much as I think and that I know everything’s going to get used. And if I know everything’s going to get used then I don’t feel like I’m over packing just because I’m checking a bag.
Corinne
I feel like planning helps. I usually try to do it by category. Like, I’m going to bring this many pairs of pants and just try to make sure none of the categories are only one thing in case something does go wrong or whatever.
Virginia
Travel with multiples.
Corinne
Like, bring at least two pairs of pants.
Virginia
So you’ll have a backup option if something gets spilled on. I feel like a lot of people do advise putting extra underwear in your carryon. And sometimes I remember to do it and sometimes I don’t. I don’t think luggage gets as lost as much as people fear. Now I’m going to say that, and everyone’s going to comment with their horror stories. It has happened to me, but I fly a lot, probably a minimum of three or four times a year. I’m 43 and I’ve been doing that most of my life, and I think twice in my life I’ve had luggage lost, in hundreds of flights. So I don’t think it happens as often as people think. But if it makes you feel less anxious to have underwear or a spare outfit in your carry on bag, by all means, do that.
Corinne
I think it’s one of those things that maybe just happens less often now, or something.
Virginia
With the missed connection sort of situation, your luggage may be delayed, but they will bring it to you. It gets worked out. So you’ll be, struggling for a day, but not the whole trip. I know it happens. I don’t want to discount people’s lived experience of luggage trauma. And also doing some recon before you go to a new place, to figure out if there are options. I do like to know, if I’m traveling domestically, where’s the nearest Target? They may not have everything I need, because Target obviously carries more of my size online than in stores. But I know I could go there and get socks or new pajamas or something. Some basic stuff if I needed.
Corinne
My clothes are bigger. I sweat more, so I change more. Now I need a bigger suitcase. Or is there a hack for this?
Virginia
Okay, I really think the theme of this episode is it’s okay that we’re bringing big suitcases, that we’re checking our bags. What is the tyranny here? I really want to investigate. Is it a diet culture mindset that you can’t travel with the things you need? What is this?
Corinne
I do think there’s this stereotype that if you have a big suitcase, that you’re high maintenance or something, you know?
Virginia
You’re winning travel if you manage to travel lightly. What are we buying into here? Like, traveling lightly is what? What about it makes you a better person?
Corinne
You’re easygoing.
Virginia
But I’m not easygoing! Anyone who’s met me knows this.
Corinne
It’s like the Gone Girl thing. The cool girl.
Virginia
Can we all please push back against this. We don’t have to be the Manic Pixie Dream Girls of travel, for God’s sake. Nor do we have to travel like tech bros.
Corinne
Have you ever watched Real Housewives and they’re going in the Hamptons for the weekend, and they each have a trunk?
Virginia
I think that’s a harmful stereotype, Corinne, and I think that I want to push back against that. I think that’s a harmful stereotype about how women travel. And yeah, I have overpacked. I don’t go to the Hamptons, but I have overpacked for a weekend trip. I will be answering no questions about it.
I don’t know. I grew up in joint custody, you guys. I need to have my stuff with me. This is just my thing. I moved back and forth between two houses my whole childhood and I like to have my things with me. And I fully unpack anywhere I’m staying. I move into that hotel room. I am nested, I’m settled, I’ve rearranged the furniture.
Corinne
My God.
Virginia
That’s okay. It’s okay.
Corinne
I feel like there is something sometimes kind of interesting about traveling. Like you suddenly have a capsule wardrobe or whatever.
The 20 Pieces of Clothing I wore for 55 Days
a year ago · 57 likes · 41 comments · Corinne Fay
Virginia
I like the puzzle of that and I like thinking it through. That’s why I do plan out my outfits for the week when I travel. I like having that kind of mapped out, and then you don’t have the decision fatigue when you’re there, because you’ve sort of done all that thinking ahead of time. But I guess what I’m thinking about is how quickly that can also become a way of measuring your success as a traveler. It can turn into this performance thing that is not helpful. And if it’s already stressful for you to pack and get organized for a trip, feeling like you also need to do it as minimally as possible feels like it’s making it harder.
Corinne
And that’s another thing about checking bags, too. Your bag has to be under 50 pounds or whatever. But if you’re checking a bag, it can be as big as you want it to be. It’s not like, it costs less to check a smaller bag.
Virginia
There’s no prize!
Corinne
Just get a bigger bag, pack the stuff you need to feel comfortable and try and let go of everything else.
Virginia
I mean, I do get that it’s super annoying that airlines charge to check bags. Now most airlines do and I understand people are trying to avoid that added expense. But I think you have to weigh that $30, $50, $60 against are you then going to be on vacation and stress you don’t have what you want? Are you going to end up impulse buying something on vacation that you don’t really need that’s not really the right thing, because you didn’t bring whatever.
I’ve definitely done that. If I don’t have something I’m going to try to buy something to make it work, and that’s never a purchase that ends up standing the test of time.
Corinne
Yeah, I think it’s worth it to try and get a suitcase that will fit all your stuff, versus the other kind of stress buying that can go on before a travel trip.
Virginia
That’s a good point. Buy Corinne’s suitcase rather than buying six pairs of cute slash comfortable sneakers. Note to Virginia.
Corinne
One of my travel anxiety strategies is definitely to just buy a bunch of stuff that I think will make me more comfortable.
Virginia
Yep, yep, yep. That’s relatable content. Sometimes it works a little bit. The piece I did after that big Thailand trip of all the stuff I bought, some of it was really helpful. Some of it I’m still traveling with. I should look back at that list and see what stood the test of time.
Corinne
I would be curious to see that. The last time I flew, which was in March of this year, I was having so much anxiety about getting motion sick that I bought, like everything I could find online that was supposed to help with motion sickness.
Virginia
But it did! You didn’t throw up!
Corinne
Well in the end, I just got a prescription from my doctor for scopolamine patches, which were life changing. I enjoyed looking out the window of the airplane, which has never happened to me before. But now I literally have this huge bag in my my closet that’s like wristbands, those weird eyeglass things. It’s crazy, but whatever.
Virginia
I feel like you could donate that to some nauseous pregnant person?
Corinne
I’m holding on to it just in case.
4. Traveling & Anti-Fatness
Virginia
All right, let’s talk a little bit about navigating anti-fatness when we’re traveling:
On a more philosophical note, I would love to hear how people show themselves kindness when they feel out of place, like they are uncomfortable taking up space, and how they advocate for themselves in those situations as well.
Corinne
I feel like this is kind of what we’re talking about. Part of dealing with that discomfort and anxiety is sometimes buying stuff that you think will make yourself feel a tiny bit better. Having a bigger suitcase and checking the suitcase so you’re not a sweaty, fat person in the airport, discombobulated and juggling a bunch of different bags or whatever. Or finding the shoes that will make you feel both comfortable and like you’re not like a slob.
Virginia
I do think the planning and related purchasing is how I get through it, too. I think you also have to just have grace for the fact that there’s going to be moments of travel that feel very uncomfortable. That’s true kind of across the board, right? Because travel is a fundamentally uncomfortable experience. We’ve taken ourselves out of our comfort zones. There are always lines you have to stand in. There is always waiting. There’s always walking and being physically uncomfortable. The bathrooms are not where you want them to be, etc. So part of deciding to travel is knowing that you’re putting yourself in a series of uncomfortable situations for some greater good of the experience.
And then, of course, if you are traveling fat, knowing that you have this added layer that other people are not having to navigate and that that’s unfair. I think if you’re traveling with straight-sized folks, figuring out how to advocate for yourself and get someone on your side so you can make sure that whatever plans are being made for the trip, that you can participate, and that your needs are being factored in, I think is important.
Corinne
This is also definitely one where I’m like, I try to be well-groomed and be as friendly and polite as I can. It’s sort of annoying advice, but.
Virginia
It is really annoying advice, but it is an understandable survival strategy.
Corinne
It’s not the kind of advice I want to give to anyone else. Like, I don’t want to say, oh, you should try and brush your hair and wear your nice pants or whatever. But that is what I find myself doing.
Virginia
And do you find it helps? Like, do you think it changes anything?
Corinne
I mean, it’s so hard to know. I think it mostly just makes me feel more comfortable.
Virginia
Yeah, that makes sense. And I think that’s valid. It’s valid to say, I’m choosing to do a few things that in my day-to-day normal life. I don’t feel like I have to go to these lengths, but I’m choosing to take these steps now to make this experience more manageable for me.
Corinne
I mean, and is brushing my hair before I go to the airport at 5am when I’ve gotten two hours of sleep really making a difference? Who knows.
Virginia
So awful. But yes, I’ve done the same thing.
We got a couple questions about traveling as a fat person in Asia. One person said they were going to Japan. One person said they were going to Taiwan as a size 20, 6 foot tall person, and had had straight size shorter friends mention getting comments about their body size, so wondering how that’s going to go.
I have not been to Taiwan. But I have been to Thailand as a fat person, and yes, you are aware, like clothing shopping is not going to be part of your experience. I did buy a great purse and a great sunglasses case and many other cute things, so still got to shop. The one thing I noticed that was stressful to navigate there was seat belts were smaller in cars. Like we took a lot of Sprinter vans, where it’s like, you call a van that can sit like seven people and the seats are small, and the seat belts never fit me. Sometimes they were just adjusted so tight, and I could lengthen them out and get them to fit, but I went without seatbelts a lot. And I hated that, obviously. Bangkok has more traffic accidents than anywhere in the world. So luckily that didn’t happen. That was the biggest thing I noticed. But I did not feel like people were being unkind to me, or I didn’t experience negativity. It was just like, this is not built for me, which wasn’t great, but was the experience.
Corinne
We did get one message from a listener, which I thought was kind of nice, and this is about their experience living abroad.
I lived in Japan for a year a long time ago. I was small fat then, and way bigger than most people. This was about 15 years ago. So anyone who has more recent experience, please chime in. I found people expected North Americans—assuming you’re North American—to be bigger. I really enjoyed being different than everyone. I tried to embrace that and show what a bigger body could do. Sometimes it was hard though. They would comment on how much they thought I would eat a lot, and weight was discussed. I don’t know if this would happen as a tourist, but just so you know. There’s a lot of stairs, and you’ll probably do a lot of walking, so prepare yourself for that. If you need to buy something clothes wise, the bigger department stores tend to carry a limited amount of larger sizes. Most shops don’t carry anything over a US medium. It is super humid in the summertime, and a lot of people have hankies to wipe the sweat off themselves. I also like the baby wipe method for keeping fresh.
Virginia
Hankies and baby wipes. I like that.
Corinne
Yes, I love those tips.
Virginia
I think there’s just such a range of experiences. I don’t think it would be accurate to say that traveling in Asia will expose you to more fatphobia than traveling as a fat person in America. I think there are different cultural nuances to fatphobia around the world, but it also shows up everywhere. So traveling as a fat person in America or Europe, you’re going to experience anti-fatness as well.
Corinne
Yeah, I like the perspective here about just enjoying being different, too. It’s kind of a nice reframing.
Virginia
I think that’s, again, that comfort zone thing we were talking about. But I also think for those of us who are white Americans and used to a certain amount of privilege and safety, it’s a good experience to be the other and have to force ourselves to get comfortable with that. I think there’s value in that experience. It’s complicated.
Corinne
All right, last question,
should I splurge on the villa with a private plunge pool or brave the resort pool deck?
Virginia
I mean, amazing question. We’re so excited for your trip.
Corinne
Yeah, invite me. I mean, it’s kind of hard not to say splurge on the villa.
Virginia
Obviously, it’s splurge on the villa. Who is not saying splurge on the villa here? But I want to be clear, we know nothing about this person. We don’t know where the villa is. We have zero context. This is exactly how the question was submitted. But Corinne and I are confidently endorsing that you should splurge on the villa.
Corinne
But I want you to splurge on the villa because that’s what you want to do, and not because you’re afraid to be seen on the resort pool deck.
Virginia
That is the other layer of this. I’m guessing this person is asking because they are fat and they’re worried about being at the resort pool deck. And you deserve to be there. However, if you can splurge on the villa and you don’t have to go there, I mean, why? I don’t know, or you’ll go to both. Because the pool decks probably fun, and that’s probably where the snacks and the drinks are and then your private plunge pool will be so lovely. We’re excited, and we want to come on this trip. It sounds really fun.
I forgot to put this in the outline, but someone else did say, “What about a Burnt Toast vacation?” And I was like, I mean, I’m available. I don’t know the logistics of that, but that’s pretty great. And there are a couple of folks who are who organize fat travel, like specific fat travel programs.
One that I hear amazing things about is Stella Vision. Their slogan is “where the ease of all inclusive meets behind the scenes Italian travel. Boutique trips for feminist travelers.” And she has talked a lot about traveling fat in Italy. So I mean, I’m dying to go on one of her vacations. They all look amazing. And, yeah, I think we can, if other folks know, some drop them in the comments, because I think that’s a great thing to explore.
Butter
Corinne
Virginia, do you have a Butter?
Virginia
I do have a Butter. I have a Butter I’m very excited about. So the backstory to this butter is that I threw my back out again, as I love to do every couple years. And so I’m back in physical therapy, working on my recovery, and I’m doing much, much, much better.
And my physical therapist had me get this, which is a balance board and calf stretcher. It is like a wood wedge-shape device that you can stand on, like on a slant, to stretch your calves. And then you can lift off the lid, and it has a curved bottom, and you can put it on the ground. You can stand on it to do balance work. And this particular one is rated for up to 400 pounds, so decently size inclusive, I feel very secure on it.
It’s so fun, and it really is helping. Like, after I’ve been sitting at my desk for a while, I get up and stand on the balance board, and it just kind of like forces me to reengage my glutes, release my hip flexors. Like, engage my core a little bit. It just kind of fixes my particular issues. Which are overly tight and weak hip flexors, and then just never using my glutes ever. My body considers those to be optional muscles. And I do a lot of sitting because I’m a writer, and then gardening, which is a death sport, and the combination is bad for my lower back. So standing on this thing a bunch of times a day is really, really helping.
Corinne
So when you stand on it, like, after you’re sitting at your desk for a while, are you standing on it in the slant position or are you doing the balance?
Virginia
I’m doing the balance. I usually use it as a calf stretcher a few times a day as well, because my calves do get very tight, and that sort of seems it’s like a chain reaction thing. My calves get tight and then I stand too much on my heels, and everything’s off. So first thing in the morning, especially, I stretch my calves a lot, but then I use it as a balance board throughout the day. This morning, I stood on it to do a 10 minute upper body free weights video and it was the added a challenge like doing bicep curls on the balance board.
Oh and I’m including this one because it has the highest weight max that I could find.
Corinne
Wow, that’s cool.
Virginia
Yeah, it like, really improved my form, because you have to engage your core to stay balanced.
Corinne
Yes, this looks really cool. I’m definitely tempted to order right now.
Virginia
It’s great. I really recommend it. And my kids are obsessed with it, too. And I have fidgety kids who regulate by moving their bodies. So if that is also in your family household, this is good for kids. I have a kid who just gets on it and balances, balances, balances, while she’s watching TV. It’s really good for her.
Corinne
That’s cool. Okay, well, I just decided I needed some new hair clips, and I just ordered these hair clips from Undo Hairware. And they’re really cute. I feel they are, like, a little bit expensive, but they they come in tons of cute colors and tons of different lengths.
I ordered a few different lengths and a few different colors, but they’re really cute. They’re the kind of thing where you’re like I want to eat this. Like, I want to put it in my mouth. I don’t know what it is. I have one in like, a pretty jade green. And some of them are sort of like stone, like marble looking. But they are very satisfying clips.
Virginia
How big are they?
Corinne
They have different lengths. There are some that are four inches, two inches, one and a half inches and one inch.
Virginia
What size are you using?
Corinne
I got one and a half inch and two inch. And I think I like the one and a half better. But they also have one inch, which is pretty small,
Virginia
That seems teeny. I sometimes use a one inch if I’m just pulling my hair half up.
Corinne
Yeah, exactly. So if you need a little tiny treat, I recommend Undo Hairware.
Virginia
We love a little treat. Yes. So fun. All right. This was a great episode.