Peter Beinart interviews political analysts Khalil Sayegh and Muhammad Shehada, who discuss growing up under Hamas rule, how Hamas governs, the motivations behind the October 7th attack, and the future of Hamas in Palestinian politics.
Growing frustration with Hamas's governance and its failure to achieve economic reform or address corruption in Gaza.
The blockade and destruction in Gaza have resulted in extreme enmity towards Israel and the dehumanization of both Israelis and Israel in the eyes of people in Gaza.
Deep dives
Growing up in Gaza under Hamas
Khalil Sayyeg and Muhammad Shahada, both Palestinian political analysts who grew up in Gaza, discuss their experiences of living under Hamas rule. Khalil describes his interactions with Hamas members in school and the conflicting feelings of their kindness and the discomfort caused by their Islamization agenda. He shares an anecdote about Hamas replacing the Palestinian national anthem with an Islamic song, symbolizing his struggle with their governance. Muhammad talks about his experience of Hamas being an excluded and persecuted minority before they took over the government. He highlights how their exclusion from Palestinian Authority jobs and their function as spoilers in the peace process enabled them to gain prominence. He also discusses the economic consequences of Israel's withdrawal from Gaza and how it worsened the situation leading up to Hamas's takeover. Both Khalil and Muhammad acknowledge Hamas's role as a government, militant wing, political party, and provider of charity in Gaza, and discuss the high cost of their governance and the limited achievements in terms of economic reform and fighting corruption.
Understanding the Gaza perspective on Hamas's violent actions
The podcast hosts ask Khalil and Muhammad about how people in Gaza perceive Hamas launching rockets and engaging in violent actions against Israel. Khalil explains that the idea of armed resistance has been deeply ingrained in Palestinian society, and Hamas has been associated with this resistance for the past two decades. He mentions that despite the war and destruction caused by Hamas, there are still supporters who view them as a deterrent against Israeli aggression. However, there is growing frustration with Hamas's governance and its failure to achieve economic reform or address corruption. Muhammad adds that the blockade and destruction in Gaza have resulted in extreme enmity towards Israel and the dehumanization of both Israelis and Israel in the eyes of people in Gaza. He predicts that even if Hamas were to be deposed and Gaza is ruled by a new force, the trauma, poverty, and desperation would fuel further radicalization and armed resistance.
Hamas's religious beliefs and ideology
The conversation shifts to discuss Hamas's religious ideologies and the role of religious prophecies. Khalil shares that some members of Hamas believe in prophecies that predict the end of Israel, while others view their actions as part of a religious mission. He describes the mentality of young fighters who crossed the fence into southern Israel, believing they were liberating the land and fulfilling prophecies. Khalil also mentions that there is a divide between the messianic beliefs of some Hamas leaders and the pragmatism of others, highlighting the complexity and diversity within the organization.
Potential futures for Gaza politics
The podcast concludes with a discussion about the potential outcomes following the catastrophic destruction caused by Israel in Gaza. The hosts ask Khalil and Muhammad about the future of politics in Gaza if Hamas were to be deposed. Khalil mentions public opinion surveys indicating growing support for the return of the Palestinian Authority to Gaza, but notes that Hamas is unwilling to accept any political solution that excludes them. He expresses his personal opinion that Hamas's political constituents should be part of any political future, but suggests that their military wing should not continue in Gaza due to the disastrous consequences they have caused for Palestinians. Muhammad adds that Israel's actions have created immense enmity and that if Gaza remains under blockade and without any prospects for recovery, it will lead to further radicalization and "uncomfortable suicide" attacks.
In this episode, Jewish Currents editor-at-large Peter Beinart speaks with two political analysts from Gaza living abroad, Khalil Sayegh and Muhammad Shehada. Sayegh and Shehada discuss what it was like growing up under Hamas rule, how Hamas governs, the motivations behind the October 7th attack, and what’s next for Hamas in Palestinian politics.
Thanks to Jesse Brenneman for producing and to Nathan Salsburg for the use of his song “VIII (All That Were Calculated Have Passed).”