
Christ Over All 4.58 Alex Kocman, David Schrock, & Stephen Wellum • Interview • “Was Jesus a Refugee? And Why It Matters for Immigration”
Dec 22, 2025
58:53
ABOUT THE EPISODE
Listen in as David Schrock & Stephen Wellum interview Alex Kocman on his COA Longform Essay "Was Jesus a Refugee? And Why It Matters for Immigration"
Timestamps
- 00:30 – Intro
- 04:50 – Alex’s Role in ABWE & Christmas Teaching
- 07:37 – What is a Refugee?
- 09:22 – How Do We Seek to Correctly Interpret Scripture?
- 11:20 – Refugees and Migration
- 15:10 – What Does Scripture Say in Regards to the Refugee, Sojourner, etc.?
- 18:00 – What Makes it Difficult to Think in Categories?
- 21:25 – Thinking About How These Things Affect Nationhood
- 25:52 – What Key Things Should We See from Matthew 2?
- 29:39 – What is the Main Emphasis of the Gospel of Matthew?
- 33:00 – What are the Dissimilarities Between Immigrant and Refugee?
- 36:57 – What are the Church’s and State’s Responsibilities Towards These People?
- 43:40 – Dr. Wellum’s Perspective on Immigration
- 50:26 – The Order Amoris
- 56:14 – Final Thoughts
- 57:23 – Outro
Resources to Click
- “Was Jesus a Refugee? And Why It Matters for the Immigration Issue” – Alex Kocman
- “Christian Nationalism Misconceptions with David Schrock & Steve Wellum” – The Missions Podcast
- “Jesus Was a Refugee” – He Gets Us
- “Yes, Jesus Was a Refugee” – Russell Moore
- “Jesus Was a Refugee and an Immigrant” – Lindsay Popperson
- “Jesus Was a Refugee” – Salt
- “Pastor Defends Illegal Alien by Saying the Bible is about “God saving us through immigration”” – Not the Bee
- “U.S. Code, Title 8, Aliens and Nationality ẞ1101(a)(42)” – Legal Information Institute
- “Refugees: 2024” – Amanda Yap, U.S. Dept. of Homeland Security
- “Desecrations, threats, and silence: anti-Christian violence grips France” – Gavin Mortimer
- “Arson Attacks on Christian Churches Rise to Record High in Germany” – Kurt Zindulka
- “Some migrant groups are ‘disproportionately criminal’ due to cultural factors, claims renowned Swiss forensic psychiatrist” – Thomas Brooke
- “Dublin protestors clash with police, burn vehicle after migrant accused of sexually assaulting Irish girl” – Michael Dorgan
- “Police accused of covering up alleged asylum seeker child rape for fear of ‘Inflaming community tensions’” – Kurt Zindulka
- “British Parliament rejects inquiry in the ongoing pedophile rape-gang scandal (by a wide majority)” – Edward Teach
- Theme of the Month: Christmas Buffet
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