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#6. L.M. Sacasas on Ivan Illich, Technopoly, and Human Flourishing

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Oct 24, 2024

Guest

L.M. Sacasas

L.M. Sacasas, a leading theorist of technology known for his thought-provoking newsletter, The Convivial Society, dives deep into the ideas of Ivan Illich. He challenges listeners to reimagine our relationship with technology, emphasizing that our vision should guide tool use rather than the other way around. The discussion covers the importance of conviviality, the impact of technology on justice and community, and the value of manual labor. Sacasas invites us to find hope amidst a society increasingly dominated by digital culture.

50:35

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insights

INSIGHT

Tools Shape Us, Not Just Serve Us

Technology is not neutral because tools shape us independent of specific uses.
L.M. Sacasas says we must see technologies as formative social structures, not mere instruments.

question_answer

ANECDOTE

Discovering Illich Gradually

Sacasas first encountered Illich through In the Vineyard of the Text and later Tools for Conviviality.
That gradual discovery turned Illich into a central influence on his thought about living well amid technology.

insights

INSIGHT

Convivial Tools Preserve Human Agency

Conviviality names tools and institutions scaled to human agency and embodied relationships.
Sacasas explains convivial tools are transparent and avoid coercive dynamics that make tools 'use us.'

Get the Snipd Podcast app to discover more snips from this episode

Conviviality vs. Technology

02:03 • 7min

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Technology's Impact on Justice and Society

08:45 • 24min

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Navigating the Tension Between Technology and Human Experience

32:18 • 2min

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The Value of Manual Labor and Human Engagement

34:03 • 5min

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Navigating Tech's Cultural Crossroads

39:09 • 11min

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#63909

The Religion of Technology

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David Noble

#2206

• Mentioned in 12 episodes

The Technological Society

Jacques Ellul

In 'The Technological Society,' Jacques Ellul discusses the concept of 'technique,' which he defines as the totality of methods rationally arrived at and having absolute efficiency in every field of human activity. Ellul argues that modern society is dominated by this 'technique,' which is focused on efficiency and has infiltrated all aspects of human existence, including science, automation, politics, and human relations. He warns that this technological system threatens human freedom and responsibility, and that it has taken on a life of its own, independent of human control. The book explores the historical rise of 'technique,' its characteristics, and its profound impact on society, highlighting the need for a critical reevaluation of the role of technology in human life.

#3474

• Mentioned in 8 episodes

Tools for Conviviality

Ivan Illich

Ivan Illich's "Tools for Conviviality" is a critical examination of industrial society's impact on human life. Illich argues that modern technologies, while offering efficiency, often lead to dependence and a loss of control. He challenges the notion of progress as solely technological advancement, emphasizing the importance of human scale and self-determination. The book explores the ways in which industrialization has shaped various aspects of life, from work and education to healthcare and transportation, highlighting the negative consequences of these systems. Illich's work serves as a call for a more human-centered approach to technology and social organization, advocating for conviviality as a guiding principle for a more just and sustainable society.

#18686

• Mentioned in 2 episodes

Life Is a Miracle

Wendell Berry

#60228

American Technological Sublime

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David E. Nye

#628

• Mentioned in 31 episodes

The Age of Surveillance Capitalism

The Fight for a Human Future at the New Frontier of Power

Shoshana Zuboff

In this book, Shoshana Zuboff provides a comprehensive analysis of surveillance capitalism, a new economic order where corporations accumulate vast wealth and power by predicting and controlling human behavior. Zuboff details how this form of capitalism, originating in Silicon Valley, has spread into every economic sector, creating 'behavioral futures markets' where predictions about our behavior are bought and sold. She argues that this system, free from democratic oversight, poses significant threats to democracy, freedom, and human future, and urges readers to take action to protect their autonomy in the digital world.

#2023

• Mentioned in 13 episodes

Technopoly

The Surrender of Culture to Technology

Nail Postman

In 'Technopoly: The Surrender of Culture to Technology', Neil Postman argues that modern society has transitioned into a 'technopoly', where technology is not just a tool but the central organizing principle of culture. Postman contends that this shift has radical consequences for politics, art, education, intelligence, and truth. He describes how technology has become the primary source of moral authority, leading to a culture that values efficiency and technical calculation over human judgment. The book critiques the pervasive influence of technology on all aspects of life, highlighting issues such as the reduction of truth to data, the dominance of experts in all fields, and the erosion of traditional moral and cultural frameworks.

#7816

• Mentioned in 4 episodes

In the Vineyard of the Text

Ivan Illich

In this book, Ivan Illich examines the Didascalicon of Hugh of St. Victor, a medieval work that marks a significant transition in reading practices from vocal to silent reading. Illich discusses the impact of technological innovations on reading habits, comparing the twelfth-century revolution in reading to the changes brought about by the printing press and the computer age. The book delves into the cultural and historical context of reading, highlighting the evolution of 'bookish' reading and its implications for Western society.

Here at Lost Prophets, we are interested not only in the seminal mid-century figures we feature, but also in those contemporaries who have imbibed their ideas and are extending them today. So we were happy to speak recently with one today’s great theorists of technology, L.M. Sacasas.

A few years ago L.M. posted on his blog 41 (!) thoughtful and provocative questions we should ask of the technologies we use — not just our computers and AI and Zoom, but also tables and alarm clocks and ovens. That inspired the New York Times’ Ezra Klein, one of L.M.’s enthusiastic readers, to contact him for an interview, which you can read here.

L.M. extends a tradition of technology’s skeptical questioners, joining figures such as Marshall McLuhan, Jacques Ellul, and Neil Postman. In an homage to Ivan Illich’s Tools for Conviviality (1973), L.M. even named his Substack, launched in 2018, the Convivial Society.

In this conversation with L.M., we talk about discovering Illich, the importance of starting from the vision we want (not from the tools), what the Amish have figured out, the “post-human future”, why our embodied condition matters, and where we see signs of hope.

Recommended:

* Tools for Conviviality, Ivan Illich (1973)

* The Technological Society, Jacques Ellul (1964)

* Technopoly, Neil Postman (1993)

* The Religion of Technology, David Noble (1999)

* American Technological Sublime, David Nye (1996)

* The Frailest Thing: Ten Years of Thinking About the Meaning of Technology, L.M. Sacasas (2019)

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