Just over one year after the Cuban missile crisis of 1962, Stanley Kubrick’s black comedy about nuclear brinksmanship gone wrong was slated to premiere for a New York audience on November 22, 1963. The assassination of President Kennedy meant a delay of several weeks before the film opened in late January. The critics loved the dark sendup of the American military and its euphemistic jargon for nuclear war planning (with its matter-of-fact projections of “megadeaths”) but some viewers were shocked by its irreverence and bubbling sexual innuendo throughout. Pete and I picked this classic movie—considered one of the greatest comedies of all time—partly as a way of introducing a key theme in our Lost Prophets conversation: the Cold War. In addition to talking about the film’s plot, actors, and sets, we also touch on the real-world figures and institutions behind the scenes, including the new generation of “defense intellectuals” and habitues of the Rand Corporation (referred to in the movie as the Bland Corporation). Mutually assured destruction, strategic deterrence, overkill, missile gaps! Additionally, we discuss on what the film can teach us about a common Lost Prophet theme: the dangers of techno-utopianism — and, near the end, we take a quick look at the recent film which offers an historical background to Strangelove, Christopher Nolan’s Oppenheimer.Timecodes:* [00:00:09] Introduction to our discussion of Dr. Strangelove, which one reviewer called "the most courageous movie ever made" and "a nightmare farce."* [02:30] The hosts share their first experiences watching the film.* [05:00] Discussion of the film's opening sequence featuring B-52 bombers refueling mid-air while playing "Try a Little Tenderness," setting up the movie's irreverent tone and innuendo.* [08:00] Analysis of General Jack D. Ripper's character and his conspiracy theory about fluoridation, which drives the plot by leading him to order a nuclear strike on the USSR.* [14:00] Description of the iconic War Room set design, which was so convincing that Ronald Reagan supposedly asked to see it when he became president, only to learn it didn't exist.* [27:30] Examination of Dr. Strangelove's character, played by Peter Sellers, and the various theories about which real-life figure he was based on, from Werner von Braun to Henry Kissinger.* [31:00] Discussion of the film's initial reception.* [41:00] Analysis of the film's critique of technological bureaucracy, showing how technical jargon and processes obscure the human reality of nuclear warfare.* [50:30] Comparison between Dr. Strangelove and Oppenheimer, discussing how comedy versus drama affects their impact in addressing nuclear weapons.* [58:30] Final thoughts on the film's underlying themes about masculinity and power, highlighting the male psychosis driving nuclear policy.Recommended:* Eric Schlosser, “Almost Everything In Dr. Strangelove Was True” (New Yorker)* “Dr. Strangelove at 60” (BBC)* “Dr. Strangelove: Behind the Scenes” (14:54)--YouTube* “Dr. Strangelove: What Makes This Movie Great?” (10:29)--YouTube* Robert Brustein, “Out of This World” (New York Review of Books, Feb. 6, 1964)Many thanks to the great Noble Dust for providing our music (their latest single, a cover of Sleeping Lessons by The Shins is here), and to the great Dan Thorn of Pink Noise Studios for editing support. Get full access to The Lost Prophets Podcast at www.lostprophets.org/subscribe

We first encountered Dougald Hine about a year ago through the wide mycelium-like network of Ivan Illich fans—and we were glad we did. His new book was just out and we heard he was doing a book tour of the U.S. quite a few years after his first visit here. Our meetup in D.C. for Dougald a few weeks ago was a rich and delightful occasion — a time when we learned what T.S. Eliot might have meant when he wrote: “wait without hope, for hope would be hope for the wrong thing.”One of the U.K.’s most influential voices in the climate debate, Dougald is the co-founder (with Paul Kingsnorth) of the Dark Mountain Project (an effort to “walk away from the stories that our societies like to tell themselves, the stories that prevent us seeing clearly the extent of the ecological, social and cultural unravelling that is now underway”) and the founder of the School of Everything (a startup inspired “by Ivan Illich’s Deschooling Society and the educational experiments of the 1960s”). His early career included a stint working for the BBC. He lives today in a small town in central Sweden where he and his partner, Anna Bjorkman, are creating “a school called HOME”—“a gathering place and a learning community for those who are drawn to the work of regrowing a living culture”. He has worked with the Riksteatern, Sweden’s national theatre, and is an associate of the Center for Environment and Development Studies at Uppsala University.His ideas, as he explains in the book and in our conversation, come out of the question he asked himself some years ago: what if our ways of talking about climate change (and the world in general)—in technocratic terms and with an overreliance on a scientific lens—is making everything worse.In a time of despair, Dougald suggests, we can talk about how we might take up (or continue) the work that is worth doing in the ruins. This work means: (1) salvaging the good that may be taken with us, (2) mourning the good that cannot be taken with us, (3) discerning those things that were never as good as we told ourselves they were, and (4) looking for the dropped threads—the lost moments earlier in the story that might have something to tell us now.Timestamps:* Introducing Dougald and two of his provocative claims: "The end of the world as we know it is not the end of the world" and "The end of the world as we know it is also the end of a way of knowing the world."* 3:00 Dougald discusses his experiences at Oxford, describing them as "one half of a shamanic initiation" where students' existing knowledge was deconstructed without guidance on reconstruction.* 6:00 Dougald’s time at BBC as a radio journalist, describing news as an "extractive industry" mining people's painful experiences* 8:00 We talk about the origins of the Dark Mountain Project, co-founded with Paul Kingsnorth in 2009, emerging from their shared critiques of environmental journalism and activism* 17:30 Dark Mountain as a "journey to the far side of despair" and its role in providing space for people whose existing stories no longer made sense* 21:00 Exploration of how Dark Mountain connected to decolonial thinking and theological perspectives on "uncivilization"* 34:30 The experience of joining Ivan Illich's circle of collaborators five years after his death — and the hospitable tradition of keeping an extra seat at the table for strangers* 43:30 Illich's Jewish background and its influence on his thinking about modernity and Christianity.* 52:30 Dougald talks about his recent book tour in North America, including observations on America's "lost literacy of lament".* 57:00 Experiences at Sand River Community Farm and the gift economy vs. modern economic frameworksFurther Reading:* Dark Mountain Project* At Work in the Ruins, Dougald Hine* Hospicing Modernity: Facing Humanity's Wrongs and the Implications for Social Activism, Vanessa Machada de Oliveira* Bayo Akomolafe* Gustavo Esteva* In the Vineyard of the Text, Ivan Illich* The Remains of the Day, Kazuo Ishiguro* First Reformed, Paul Shrader* Soil and Soul, Alistair McIntosh* The Gift, Lewis Hyde* Spell of the Sensuous, David Abram* Rivers North of the Future, David Cayley* Dominion: How the Christian Revolution Remade the World, Tom Holland* Gender, Ivan Illich Get full access to The Lost Prophets Podcast at www.lostprophets.org/subscribe

He’s been called a poet of quiet revolution: a revolution staged to heal the rift between humanity and the natural world around us. Gary Snyder’s distinctive spirituality combines Eastern traditions like Zen Buddhism, Western concerns with deep ecology, and Native American wisdom.Over his 94 years, Snyder’s career ranges from his early friendship with Jack Kerouac and the Beats, through his years in Japan studying Buddhism and Asian culture, followed by his acclaim as a kind of shaman of the counterculture and environmental movement.Not a primitivist but a thinking poet, Snyder redefines humanism to include the nonhuman. By reconnecting with wilderness and practicing “reinhabitation,” we remember what Snyder notes was the role of the poet/shaman: to sing the voice of corn, the voice of the Pleiades, the voice of bison, the voice of antelope.Some takeaways from our conversation:* A statement Snyder once wrote describing his work: “As a poet, I hold the most archaic values on earth. They go back to the late Paleolithic: the fertility of the soil, the magic of animals, the power-vision in solitude, the terrifying initiation and rebirth; the love and ecstasy of the dance, the common work of the tribe. I try to hold both history and wilderness in mind, that my poems may approach the true measure of things and stand against the unbalance and ignorance of our times.”* As the champion of an ethnopoetics which aims to recapture the primitive and give it voice, Gary Snyder models for us solidarity with a bioregion, with (as he put it) the classes Marx overlooked—the animals, rivers, and grasses.* His emphasis on the Buddhist notion of right livelihood and his appreciation of manual work: “A regular job ties you down and leaves you no time. Better to live simply, be poor, and have the time to wander and write and dig (meaning to penetrate and absorb and enjoy) what was going on in the world.”* Snyder does not belong to any particular poetic school but he can be said to come out of the modernist tradition of Ezra Pound and Charles Olson. This is poetry in a free form but also engaged with culture in a particular way. It was Pound’s translations from the Chinese which Snyder said inspired him to look into these poets. * His very local sense of bioregionalism: “Stewardship means, for most of us, find your place on the planet, dig in, and take responsibility from there—the tiresome but tangible work of school boards, county supervisors, local foresters—local politics.”* On his idea of “the practice of the wild”: “Off the trail is another name for the Way, and sauntering off the trail is the practice of the wild. That is also where—paradoxically—we do our best work. But we need paths and trails and will always be maintaining them. You first must be on the path, before you can turn and walk into the wild.”Timestamps:* Intro clip: Gary Snyder reads a short poem about climbing the Sierra Matterhorn with Jack Kerouac.* 00:45 Introduction of Snyder as a "poet of quiet revolution" bridging Eastern traditions and Western environmentalism* 2:31 Pete and Elias discuss Gary Snyder as their first artistic prophet.* 6:34 Early biographical details: Snyder's birth in San Francisco and childhood on a subsistence farm in Washington state* 13:24 Snyder's early mountaineering experiences and spiritual connection to nature* 21:24 Snyder’s involvement with the Beat movement and the historic San Francisco poetry renaissance* 39:00 The relationship between Buddhist teachings and environmental consciousness in Snyder's work* 42:39 Snyder's travels to Japan and deepening engagement with Zen Buddhism* 49:00 Emergence of the environmental movement and Snyder's role in deep ecology* 54:00 A reading of Snyder's influential "Smokey the Bear Sutra"* 1:14:00 Snyder's concept of "re-inhabitation" and connection to place* 1:22:00 Pete and Elias’ “field trip” to view one of the Chinese landscape scrolls that inspired Snyder at the Freer Gallery* 1:35:00 Snyder's concepts of bioregionalism and deep ecology* 1:42:39 Our guest, actor and author Peter Coyote, joins us to discuss his personal relationship with Snyder.* 2:14:00 On the counterculture movement's successes and failures* 2:17:14 Coyote's final thoughts on Snyder's legacy as a disciplined seeker of truth* 2:25:30 Pete and Elias's final reflections on Snyder's Americanness and the unfinished project of the countercultureRecommended:* Earth House Hold (1969)—prose selections, mostly related to “…the coming revolution [which] will close the circle and link us in many ways with the most creative aspects of our archaic past.” (Contains the essay “Buddhism and the Coming Revolution.”)* Turtle Island (1974)—a collection of poetry and prose which won the Pulitzer Prize for Poetry in 1975. Themes of rediscovery of the land and becoming native to it once again.* Practice of the Wild (1990)—perhaps Snyder’s most important essays on deep ecology and wilderness* Mountain and Rivers Without End (1996)—a long poem written over four decades, combining many themes from his work through the frame device of a Chinese handscroll* Distant Neighbors (2014)—Some 240 letters exchanged between Snyder and his friend from the 1960s, Wendell Berry* Dharma Bums (1958)—Jack Kerouac’s fanboy portrait of the young Gary Snyder, including their climb together up the Matterhorn mountain in the Sierras. The bubbling tone of their friendship, a crazy mix of proto-hippie freedom and Zen/Vedanta lingo, is kept up by Kerouac’s bebop prose style.* Sleeping Where I Fall: A Chronicle (1998, 2015)—Peter Coyote’s memoir of his epic days with the San Francisco Mime Troupe, the Diggers and the rising counter-culture * The Rainman’s Third Cure: An Irregular Education (2015)—Coyote’s second memoir, a collection of profiles of his mentors, including a Mafia consiglieri and poet Gary Snyder who introduced him to the practice of Zen* The Practice of the Wild (video of a talk Snyder gave at Colorado College in 2015).* Balaraswati Music and Dance School benefit reading—1976. Six minutes of Snyder, sitting in a lotus position and wearing beads, reading wonderfully from Regarding Wave and other collections.* Distant Neighbors, Festival of Faith (2014)—a live conversation between Snyder and Wendell Berry about their published collection of letters and the themes of their long friendship Many thanks to the great band NOBLE DUST, who provides the music for Lost Prophets. Their latest album, A Picture for a Frame, is here.Many thanks to our editor, the great Dan Thorn.LOST PROPHETS is a podcast about the mid-century voices of solidarity we need to hear again. To listen on your podcast player, our Spotify link is here, Apple Podcasts link is here, and RSS link is here. Get full access to The Lost Prophets Podcast at www.lostprophets.org/subscribe

Marc H. Ellis (1952-2024) saw the prophet today as in a condition of exile, refusing to compromise with injustice, perhaps doomed, without protection, even without destination.It was while first reading Jewish theologian Marc Ellis’ writing that we realized the waters of the prophetic ran much deeper than we had first thought.We excitedly tore through several of his books on the prophetic in anticipation of our Lost Prophets interview with Marc, back in January. When we connected, he seemed a little frail but still ardent and eloquent. (He told us he got a kick out of the title of our podcast.) Near the end of our almost two-hour exchange, he offhandedly mentioned his health struggles. We traded a couple of emails in the weeks following and then saw the notices that Marc had died on June 8th.The prophetic was surely the great theme of Marc’s work, beginning in 1974, when an encounter with Dorothy Day in Tallahassee convinced him to spend a year living at the main Catholic Worker house in New York. He next moved to graduate school at Marquette University in Milwaukee. For his thesis he chose to write on the co-founder of the Catholic Worker movement, Peter Maurin. Marc was also affiliated for a time with the Maryknoll School of Theology, a home of liberation theology, where he said he discovered the prophetic.Amidst the catastrophic 20th century, Marc claimed to see a revival of prophecy in figures such as Martin Luther King, Simone Weil, Gandhi, Albert Camus, and others. “It should not surprise us that a century so dark has also given birth to men and women who have had prophetic thoughts and lived prophetic lives,” he wrote. “And so in the century of the dead the question of the prophet is reborn.”He was struck by the way prophetic figures typically become exiles in their own communities, as Marc himself had done, due to his uncompromising belief that Jewish liberation had to include Palestinian liberation.In addition to his biography of Peter Maurin, he wrote one of the few books proposing a Jewish liberation theology, with introductions by Gustavo Gutierrez and Desmond Tutu. He wrote several books on Israel and Palestine, as well as essays on notable Jewish thinkers (Wiesel, Buber, Heschel, Arendt, Levinas), Holocaust theology, and the wonderful interfaith reflections in Revolutionary Forgiveness.Some takeaways from our conversation:* The prophets do not celebrate progress, despite the way modernity itself has become a religion, enabled partly by the old religions. Everything we enjoy in modernity has a dark side.* The Catholic Worker experience: spending a year among the poor and their spirituality. “There was something beautiful about it which became foundational in my life.”* Prophets become closer to each other across traditions than they are to many within their own traditions. The ecumenism of our times is not one of faith and dogma but rather of solidarity. None of us can make it alone or in our particular communities. We have a different community—the prophetic diaspora.* The New Diaspora of exiles worldwide—the Catholic Worker house in New York had posters of Gandhi, Buber, etc.* Simone Weil—”she was a one-off.” Her idea of the new saintliness, which both connected to the old traditions while abandoning parts of them. She insisted on the freedom to think and to act. A practical mystic—something like Bob Dylan, the itinerant Jewish prophet (and fan of Marc Ellis’ work!).* It’s difficult to define the prophetic—it’s a kind of mystical encounter. The prophetic is set apart but we don’t know how or why that happens. It comes from somewhere else.* And it’s not just political. The prophetic is the embodiment of the possibility, the gamble, of meaning (and God) in history and in our lives. You can see it, feel it—as in the aura several witnesses have asserted MLK possessed.* The prophetic is a perilous vocation—your own community probably can’t protect you. There’s no reward, even from God. There is, in Marc’s words, a “solitude and a solidarity” in this way of living.Timestamps01:30 We introduce Ellis as a Jewish theologian who deeply studied prophecy, noting this was one of their last conversations with him.02:45 How we discovered Ellis's work while researching prophetic figures.03:40 We consider how the mid-20th century reawakened prophetic thinking in response to modernity's challenges and failures.07:35 About Ellis's early background, from his Orthodox Jewish upbringing to his time at Florida State University.19:30 Ellis’s concept of a "prophetic diaspora" and how prophets often become exiles from their traditions.22:50 Ellis's writings on how mass death in the 20th century led to a revival of prophetic thinking30:55 How people like Dorothy Day and Martin Buber found themselves closer to prophetic figures of other faiths than to their own traditions. Prophecy as the “wild card” in the deck—we never know when it will turn up. The “hidden circle” of prophets, the “light gatherers.”43:30 Guest Marc Ellis joins the discussion, sharing his personal journey discovering the prophetic as indigenous to Jewish tradition and his encounters with Holocaust theologian Richard Rubenstein (“Where is God? We need power”). The promise of modernity amidst the growing “nation of the dead.” The “new diaspora” of prophets.52:00 Ellis reflects on how the major religions became enablers of modernity, even as they became more traditional in some respects. His time at Maryknoll and his discovery of liberation theology. Meeting Daniel Berrigan in 1974. The impossibility of defining the prophetic, a kind of unpredictable mystical encounter. A story about why Martin Luther King Jr. had an “aura” that set him apart, as do all prophets. The prophetic is about the possibility of meaning in history—“it’s a gamble”. And “a perilous vocation.” Simone Weil—a “one-off” and a mystic “in practical terms like Bob Dylan.”1:03:45 Ellis's encounter with Bob Dylan. His year at the Catholic Worker with the elderly Dorothy Day. Two deeply opposed views of the Holocaust and the U.S. Holocaust Museum (Richard Rubenstein vs. Elie Wiesel).1:11:20 Ellis’s understanding of "covenantal vocation" and the heritage of prophecy in Judaism.1:21:28 The nature of "Revolutionary Forgiveness" and its role in Israeli-Palestinian relations. After many centuries, the Christian embrace of Jewish history.1:26:00 Ellis's thoughts on the future of prophetic movements and why prophets shouldn't focus too much on outcomes. Despite the famous song’s Christian hope, he suggests “We’re not going to overcome.”1:31:30 Ellis’s new book “First Light” about his friendship with Edward Said, as well as his current practice of daily journaling and painting during wartime.1:35:00 The "Ice Age" which has come over prophetic thinking in recent decades. Theologians no longer write and speak to power in the same way they once did.1:38:38 Ellis’ final reflections on why he continues his work preserving the prophetic tradition, despite its difficulties as a frightening kind of vocational misadventure. He concludes with thoughts on the difference between Christian and Jewish views of prophecy and hope.Further reading:* A Year at the Catholic Worker: A Spiritual Journey among the Poor (2000), Marc H. Ellis* Revolutionary Forgiveness: Essays on Judaism, Christianity and the Future of Religious Life (2000), Marc H. Ellis* Toward a Jewish Theology of Liberation (2007), Marc H. Ellis* Encountering the Jewish Future: with Wiesel, Buber, Heschel, Arendt and Levinas (2011), Marc H. Ellis* Future of the Prophetic: Israel’s Ancient Wisdom Re-presented (2014), Marc H. Ellis* A Palestinian Theology of Liberation (1989), Naim Stifan Ateek* First Light: Encountering Edward Said and the Late-Style Jewish Prophetic in the New Diaspora (2023), Marc H. Ellis Get full access to The Lost Prophets Podcast at www.lostprophets.org/subscribe

Here at Lost Prophets, we are interested not only in the seminal mid-century figures we feature, but also in those contemporaries who have imbibed their ideas and are extending them today. So we were happy to speak recently with one today’s great theorists of technology, L.M. Sacasas.A few years ago L.M. posted on his blog 41 (!) thoughtful and provocative questions we should ask of the technologies we use — not just our computers and AI and Zoom, but also tables and alarm clocks and ovens. That inspired the New York Times’ Ezra Klein, one of L.M.’s enthusiastic readers, to contact him for an interview, which you can read here.L.M. extends a tradition of technology’s skeptical questioners, joining figures such as Marshall McLuhan, Jacques Ellul, and Neil Postman. In an homage to Ivan Illich’s Tools for Conviviality (1973), L.M. even named his Substack, launched in 2018, the Convivial Society.In this conversation with L.M., we talk about discovering Illich, the importance of starting from the vision we want (not from the tools), what the Amish have figured out, the “post-human future”, why our embodied condition matters, and where we see signs of hope. Recommended:* Tools for Conviviality, Ivan Illich (1973)* The Technological Society, Jacques Ellul (1964)* Technopoly, Neil Postman (1993)* The Religion of Technology, David Noble (1999)* American Technological Sublime, David Nye (1996)* The Frailest Thing: Ten Years of Thinking About the Meaning of Technology, L.M. Sacasas (2019) Get full access to The Lost Prophets Podcast at www.lostprophets.org/subscribe

This episode takes us into the long history of the Civil Rights Movement as we talk about the methods and legacies of two long-distance runners, Ella Baker (1903-1986) and Septima Clark (1898-1987).Baker was a legendary organizer who espoused a group-centered form of leadership and insisted that deep change required the long-haul “spadework” of community organizing. Clark, known as “the teacher of the Civil Right movement,” built a network of Southern Citizenship Schools, which were crucial to the emergence of Black voting power in the early 1960s.We also discuss the influence of the famous Highlander Folk School (today the Highlander Research and Education Center) in New Market, TN—and the role of its workshops as a seedbed of activism since the labor struggles over coal mining in the 1930s.For this conversation, we invited two guests whose work has been inspired by the organizing culture of Highlander and the Civil Rights Movement:* Stephen Lazar is a National Board Certified Social Studies teacher, who is typically teaching students Social Studies and English at Harvest Collegiate High School in NYC, which he helped to start. His writing on policy and practice has been published on the New York Times, Washington Post, Education Week, Chalkbeat, and Albert Shanker Institute websites.* Daniel Marshall is the founder and director of the Sand Mountain Cooperative Education Center (in Gunstersville, AL), whose Highlander-inspired mission is to house and support programs that facilitate freedom, community centered-development, and cooperative education in the South.Recommended:* Ella Baker and the Black Freedom Movement (2005), Barbara Ransby* Freedom’s Teacher: The Life of Septima Clark (2012), Katherine Mellen Charron* I’ve Got the Light of Freedom (2007), Charles Payne* The Long Haul: An Autobiography (1991), Myles Horton, with Judith Kohl and Herbert Kohl* Starting with People Where They Are: Ella Baker’s Theory of Political Organizing (2022), Mie Inouye* Ella Baker and the Origins of “Participatory Democracy” (2004), Carol Mueller* Fundi: The Story of Ella Baker (1981), documentary about Ella Baker* You’ve Got To Move: Stories of Change in the South (1985), documentary about the Highlander Folk School Get full access to The Lost Prophets Podcast at www.lostprophets.org/subscribe

Ivan Illich, a radical public intellectual, critiques modern institutions with deep insights into education, healthcare, and capitalism. Joined by biographer David Cayley, they explore Illich's concept of 'conviviality' and the commodification of care that diminishes personal relationships. They discuss the legacy of Illich's 'learning webs' and how his ideas shape contemporary movements around community and solidarity. Their conversation delves into the transformative power of friendship, humor, and the need for genuine connection in an increasingly divided society.

Peter Maurin (1877-1949) was Dorothy Day’s great teacher and collaborator in establishing the Catholic Worker movement. He saw Catholic social teachings as the still-unexploded “dynamite of the Church.” If Dorothy Day is better known today than her close colleague, Peter Maurin, it is not for lack of praise from Dorothy herself. She never ceased to emphasize Peter’s influence and his role, noting that there would not have been a Catholic Worker movement but for Peter. “Peter gave me more than instruction”, she liked to repeat. “He gave me a way of life.”That way of life, a radical path of voluntary poverty and service to the poor, grew out of Peter’s early life, having been born into a large French family which farmed the same land in the Languedoc region for centuries. His peripatetic life experiences doing all kinds of day labor to support himself as an independent intellectual and Catholic street preacher served to keep him close to the poor. “He believed in poverty,” Dorothy once noted, “and loved it and felt it as a liberating force.”Despite his Chaplinesque, shabby appearance, Maurin’s mental universe was immensely rich, stocked with a mix of Catholic theology, history, and literature which he happily shared with any and all he encountered. He opposed both communism and industrial capitalism, favoring his own notion of a “green revolution” in a three-point program of roundtable discussions, houses of hospitality, and farming communes that blended religion, politics, and ecology — or, as he put it, “cult, culture, and cultivation.” These ideas became the program of the Catholic Worker movement during Peter’s lifetime.Our guest for this episode is Kelly Johnson, associate professor of religious studies at the University of Dayton and author of The Fear of Beggars: Stewardship and Poverty in Christian Ethics (2007).Some takeaways from our conversation:* Peter as a paragon of a radical, Franciscan Christianity in which piety and social justice are fused in a gentle personalism.* Peter’s life as the outsider, the pilgrim, the mendicant beggar at times. By 1934, he had given up everything—home, status, financial security and his personal life to become “a fool for Christ” (cf. I Corinthians 1:10).* Peter’s “troubadour method” of reciting his Easy Essays on street corners to crowds. Once asked what university he had graduated from, he answered, “Union Square.”* Peter taught Dorothy his philosophies of distributism and anarchy, as well as his opposition to usury—a shared goal of a society in which “it would be easier for people to be good.”* Peter’s opposition to the New Deal and to the wage-only focus of unions, as neither solution goes to the roots. Only the land movement, he felt, was a cure for unemployment.* Peter’s vision of “cells of good living” over trying to seize power at the top.* Peter’s love of language and word-play: “The aim of the Catholic Worker is to make an impression on the Depression through expression.”* Peter’s contrast between machine civilization and handicraft civilization (agriculture and crafts). His idea that scholars must become farmers and farmers must become scholars, part of his vision of restoring a truly Catholic culture—reclaiming the dignity of manual labor.* In the 1940s, Peter defended the Jewish people from slanders and appealed for the U.S. to accept more refugees.* Peter was one of the first Catholics to seriously entertain dialogue with Marxists.* Peter and the Catholic Worker movement influenced Michael Harrington, Thomas Merton, Daniel Berrigan, and E.F. Schumacher, among many others.Timestamps* Introduction to Peter Maurin and the Catholic Worker Movement, brief overview of Peter's background and significance. [00:00:00]* Peter's early life in France, his upbringing and family background. [00:05:29]* Peter’s travels and experiences in North America, journey through Canada and the United States, various jobs and encounters. [00:08:00]* Peter’s "Easy Essays." Discussion of his unique writing style and method of communicating ideas. [00:13:00]* Peter’s personalist philosophy, and an exploration of his views on the centrality of the human person and its relation to community. [00:20:02]* The Green Revolution and Peter’s agrarian vision, a precursor of our notions of sustainability. [00:25:30]* Peter's critique of industrial capitalism and alternative economic ideas. Discussion of distributism, cooperatives, and his vision for a new social order. [00:35:00]* Peter’s approach to popular education through the practice of "roundtable discussions" about social issues and solutions, as well as Peter’s ideas about integrating manual labor, intellectual pursuits, and social action. [00:45:00]* Interview with Kelly Johnson (University of Dayton), and her first encounter with Peter Maurin. [00:58:42]* Peter’s practice of voluntary poverty — his way of embodying his own ideas, not merely talking about them. Plus, an introduction to “viator economics.” [01:10:00]* The historic partnership between Peter and Dorothy Day. Analysis of their complementary roles in founding the Catholic Worker Movement. [01:20:08]* Peter's way of empowering those with whom he spoke—a sign of a great teacher. His notable blind spot: the impact of slavery. This missed moment for lay Catholic theology—not informing the life of the Church? Hope as a thing you do, not a thing you feel. [01:30:00]* Concluding thoughts and reflections from the hosts — and a mention of possible topics for some future episodes. [01:43:29]Recommended:* The Forgotten Radical Peter Maurin: Easy Essays from the Catholic Worker, edited by Lincoln Rice (2020)* Peter Maurin: Apostle to the World, Dorothy Day with Francis J. Sicius (2004)* The Long Loneliness: The Autobiography of the Legendary Catholic Social Activist, Dorothy Day (1952, 2009)* Peter Maurin: Prophet in the Twentieth Century, Marc H. Ellis (2010)* The Fear of Beggars: Stewardship and Poverty in Christian Ethics, Kelly Johnson (2007).Many thanks to the great band NOBLE DUST, who provides the music for Lost Prophets. Their latest album A Picture for a Frame is here.This is the third episode of LOST PROPHETS, a podcast about the mid-century voices of solidarity we need to hear again. To listen on your podcast player, our Spotify link is here, Apple Podcasts link is here, and RSS link is here. Get full access to The Lost Prophets Podcast at www.lostprophets.org/subscribe

The life and career of Jane Jacobs (1916-2006) is a remarkable case of the inspired “amateur” who changes an entire field of study (urban planning) merely by looking more closely at things than the experts had done. While not religious, she had a profound faith in the essential goodness and creativity of ordinary people — and consequently in our collective ability to co-create the places in which we live.In her later years, Jane Jacobs once recounted her reaction upon coming to New York in the early 1940s: “It was inexhaustible. Just to walk around the streets and wonder at it. So many streets different. So many neighborhoods different. So much going on.” In this language, we hear not only her love of cities but the beginnings of her intuition that we grasp truth through love. Thinking of the city planners of her day, many of whom seemed dubious about cities, she argued that it’s a big mistake to try to reform something you hate because that emotion will contaminate your prescription. One version of Jane Jacobs (in the eyes of her opponents) is the “uncredentialed housewife” whose organizing talents in 1962 defeated New York City’s mega-planner Robert Moses and his Lower Manhattan Expressway, thereby rescuing for later generations the neighborhoods of SoHo (one of the greatest inventories of 19th century buildings in the world) and Little Italy. Another version of Jane is the “city naturalist,” a keen observer of processes hiding in plain sight: the organic order of streets, the mail shunting by beneath her feet in pneumatic tubes, the diamond trade, the flower market. A true urbanophile, she saw self-organizing networks everywhere.A third Jane is the ecologist of cities and the champion of economic diversity, perhaps the most powerful benefit cities can offer. What Rachel Carson did for the natural environment or Ralph Nader for the commercial environment, Jane Jacobs did for the built environment. She became the articulate voice and defender of a movement which now seems merely common sense: a bottom-up approach to urbanism which values streets over buildings, people over automobiles, and the unpredictable over the centrally planned.For our conversation about Jane Jacobs, we spoke with her longtime friend and ally in urbanist advocacy Roberta Brandes Gratz, author of The Battle for Gotham: New York in the Shadow of Robert Moses and Jane Jacobs, among other titles.Takeaways from our conversation:“Cities are created by everybody.” Jane saw them as places where ordinary people had the chance to do something new and interesting. They offer scope for all kinds of people. Jane’s new theory about how cities function and her insight into the kind of problem a city is—i.e., one of organized complexity, requiring us to deal simultaneously with numerous interrelated factors in an organic whole.Against those who saw only disorder, Jane could see an intricate and unique order, which she liked to describe using ecological metaphors.Jane’s landmark book, The Death and Life of Great American Cities, gave a boost to localism of all sorts, including the local food movement.The concept of import replacement: Jane thought it her most important contribution. Not a product of planning but of bottom-up processes of discovery within a city.Jane was part of the wave of resistance to centralized authority in the 1960s—Betty Friedan, Rachel Carson, Noam Chomsky, the civil rights movement.Big plans live intellectually off little plans. Without the latter, planners often make big mistakes which cannot easily be corrected.Jane’s idea that we’re living in a time of “dying priesthoods” of all kinds. “We need unlimited independent thinkers with unlimited skepticism and curiosity.”Jane’s enormous impact on reverting cities from car-dominated places back to walkable (and bikeable) places. Episode Sections:Introduction to Jane Jacobs [00:00:00]Her early life and upbringing [00:02:47]Her deep curiosity and early interests [00:07:29]Early career as a journalist [00:13:35]Development of her urban theories [00:19:00]Her activism against urban renewal projects [00:39:32]Discussion of Jane's major books:The Death and Life of Great American Cities [00:30:00]The Economy of Cities [00:52:01]Cities and the Wealth of Nations [00:57:56]Systems of Survival [01:05:00]Interview with Roberta Gratz [01:09:56]Discussion of Jane's final book Dark Age Ahead [02:03:00]Concluding thoughts on her legacy [02:11:56]Recommended:Eyes on the Street, Robert Kanigal (2017)Citizen Jane: Battle for the City Documentary (2016)City Limits Documentary (1971)Death and Life of Great American Cities, Jane Jacobs (1961, 1992)The Economy of Cities, Jane Jacobs (1970)Cities and the Wealth of Nations, Jane Jacobs (1985)Dark Age Ahead, Jane Jacobs (2007)The Battle for Gotham: New York in the Shadow of Robert Moses and Jane Jacobs, Roberta Brandes Gratz Get full access to The Lost Prophets Podcast at www.lostprophets.org/subscribe

For our debut episode, we felt we could hardly find a better example of our theme than the life and work of Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel.To recover the spirituality of Heschel is to re-enter a state of awe and wonder, especially if we recognize, as Heschel taught, that “God takes humankind seriously.” That is, we are not merely worshippers but also covenant partners in tikkun olam, the ancient notion of repairing the world.An acclaimed interpreter of the Hebrew prophets, a popular theologian drawing on his own traditions of mystical Judaism, and an activist unafraid to plunge into both the Civil Rights movement and the protests against the war in Vietnam, Heschel exemplifies the “moral grandeur and spiritual audacity” he once exhorted President Kennedy to display in an urgent telegram.In this debut episode, our guest is Rabbi Shai Held, author of The Call of Transcendence, a study of Heschel’s spirituality. His latest book is Judaism Is About Love: Recovering the Heart of Jewish Life.In this conversation, Pete and Elias interview Rabbi Held about Heschel's influence on other mid-century prophets, his background in Hasidism, and his relationship with Martin Buber. The conversation delves into Heschel's views on American culture and militarism, as well as his interpretation of Exodus theology.Some themes and takeaways from our conversation:* Heschel’s view that God is everywhere: we search for his presence through a life of spirituality.* The key ideas of radical amazement, spiritual audacity, moral grandeur — and Heschel’s emphasis on the importance of the capacity for surprise.* Heschel’s memories of the warm humanity of Hasidic culture and his experience of growing up amidst people he could revere, concerned with problems of the inner life, spirituality, integrity.* The prophet must first have been shattered himself/herself. Rather than focusing on thought palaces, the prophet takes us on tours of the slums, as Heschel put it.* Heschel found himself in what he felt was a moral emergency rooted in a spiritual emergency. The ultimate and spiritual cause of the Shoah: distance from God, a lack of piety.* What the prophets have discovered: that history can be a nightmare.* The sanctity of time for the Jews—how to convert it to eternity.* Heschel’s prophetic anti-militarism. A favorite question to provoke his students: “Nuclear weapons—are they kosher?”* His view of education: “Reverence for learning and the learning of reverence”.* His wonderful humor: “I’m an optimist—against my better judgement.”* Heschel as a brilliant practitioner of mystagogy—he leads us into the mysteries.* Religion should not be used as a mere accessory to preconceived political beliefs, he argued, but should guide and shape one's politics.* Heschel's interreligious solidarity was bold and unapologetic, seeking to find common ground and learn from different religious traditions. “No religion is an island,” as he liked to say.Episode Timestamps:Introduction (00:00—15:52)* Why a Podcast about “lost prophets”?* Impact of the neoliberal “ice age” and our need to recover these mid-20th century thinkersHeschel’s Background (15:52—29:29)* His life and work* Hasidic upbringing in Warsaw* A move to America, eventual involvement in the burgeoning Civil Rights movementHeschel’s Major Works (29:29—44:59)* Overview of The Sabbath* Discussion of The Prophets and his concept of divine pathos* His critique of modern society and consumerismHeschel and Civil Rights (44:59—1:01:00)* His spiritual alliance with Martin Luther King Jr.* Activism in the Civil Rights movement, then Vietnam anti-war movement* His interfaith workInterview with Rabbi Shai Held (1:01:00—2:01:10)* Rabbi Held’s discovery of Heschel’s greater depths* Exploration of his theology and views on prophecy* Relationship between Heschel and Martin Buber* The relevance of Exodus theology; views on American culture and militarism* His relevance and legacy today, views on Judaism and love, the use of the term “prophetic”Conclusion (2:01:24—end)* Our key takeaways from the conversation* Discussion of Heschel’s emphasis on wonder, surprise, and breaking through callousnessRecommended:* The Prophets, A.J. Heschel (1962)* The Sabbath, A.J. Heschel (1951)* God In Search of Man: A Philosophy of Judaism, A. J. Heschel (1976)* Spiritual Audacity, documentary film biography (2021)* The Earth Is the Lord’s, A.J. Heschel (1995)* Heschel’s Last Interview — YouTube (1972)* A. J. Heschel: A Life of Radical Amazement, Julian Zelizer (2021)* Abraham Joshua Heschel: The Call of Transcendence, Shai Held (2013)* Judaism Is About Love, Shai Held (2024)Many thanks to the great band NOBLE DUST, who provides the music for Lost Prophets. Their latest album A Picture for a Frame is here.[Note: This episode and interview was recorded in December 2023, in the early months of Israel’s invasion of Gaza, a topic we will return to in more depth in a later episode.] Get full access to The Lost Prophets Podcast at www.lostprophets.org/subscribe