213. Nora Bateson - Going deeper. Meeting not matching and the importance of getting lost
Mar 15, 2024
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In this podcast, Nora Bateson discusses the importance of meeting, not matching problems. They explore systemic issues, habit change, personal identity, societal influence, entitlement in relationships, and the call to go deeper in understanding individual experiences beyond societal expectations.
Emphasizing 'meeting, not matching' in problem-solving fosters long-term systemic solutions over immediate fixes.
Getting lost together promotes resilience, intimacy, and communal learning, challenging the need for constant answers.
Deep dives
Redefining Problem-Solving Approaches
The podcast delves into reimagining problem-solving methods by emphasizing the concept of meeting, rather than merely matching, issues. It discusses the limitations of traditional problem identification and direct solutions in complex living systems. Exploring scenarios from health scares to ecological threats, it highlights the interconnectedness of problems, the dynamic nature of issues, and the compensatory processes that come into play.
Significance of End Order Solutions
The episode contrasts first-order solutions, focusing on immediate fixes, with end order solutions that transcend linear outcomes. It uses examples like addressing a cut versus helping a struggling child in school. Emphasizing the ripple effects and complexities of systemic processes, it challenges the notion of defining outcomes in interconnected systems, advocating for deeper, long-term approaches.
Agency and Action in Systemic Relationships
The podcast explores the concept of agency within systemic relationships, emphasizing actions that allow for multiple relational shifts simultaneously. It discusses the importance of perceiving conditions dynamically and encouraging actions that foster evolving relationships. It contrasts first-order problem-solving driven by immediate fixes with end order actions that contribute to broader systemic shifts.
Navigating Lostness and Resilience
The episode recounts a personal experience of getting lost with children in a foreign place and extrapolates lessons on resilience and navigating uncertainty. It touches on the significance of intimacy in being lost together, challenging the conventional need for always having answers. Highlighting the beauty in improvisation and communal learning during moments of lostness, it emphasizes the richness found in unexpected experiences.
Nora Bateson came by the podcast again to speak in-depth about the concept of meeting, not matching problems. This is a wonderful concrete (not abstract) conversations that dives deep into this concept. A concept that is crucial for the world we're in. One that invites a different perception of it alltogether. Here's the first conversation. The book Combining. The article Communication is sacred. Enjoy! Host: Amit Paul