#1201 Rebecca Newberger Goldstein: How Our Deepest Longing Drives Us and Divides Us

Jan 12, 2026

Rebecca Newberger Goldstein, a MacArthur Fellow and acclaimed philosopher, dives deep into her latest work, The Mattering Instinct. She explores the primal need to feel that we matter and ties it to our biology and social interactions. Goldstein delineates four types of mattering: transcenders who seek cosmic significance, socializers drawn to relationships and fame, competitors focused on comparison, and heroic strivers pursuing excellence. She also discusses how philosophy helps navigate our existential questions and the delicate balance of mattering in a diverse society.

Ask episode

AI Snips

Chapters

Books

Transcript

Episode notes

INSIGHT

Mattering Is Normative Attention

To matter means to be deserving of attention, which invokes norms of justification and values.
Rebecca Newberger Goldstein argues this normative core is central to what makes humans distinctive.

INSIGHT

Entropy Shapes Our Longing To Matter

Goldstein links the mattering instinct to biology and thermodynamics, especially entropy's force toward disorder.
Living systems resist entropy and that resistance helps explain why organisms seek to matter.

INSIGHT

Self-Reflection Fuels Existential Longing

Humans combine strong self-directed attention with self-reflection, producing the existential question of deserving attention.
This collision creates the mattering instinct: wanting to justify why we deserve the attention we give ourselves.

Get the Snipd Podcast app to discover more snips from this episode

Get the app

******Support the channel******

Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thedissenter

PayPal: paypal.me/thedissenter

PayPal Subscription 1 Dollar: https://tinyurl.com/yb3acuuy

PayPal Subscription 3 Dollars: https://tinyurl.com/ybn6bg9l

PayPal Subscription 5 Dollars: https://tinyurl.com/ycmr9gpz

PayPal Subscription 10 Dollars: https://tinyurl.com/y9r3fc9m

PayPal Subscription 20 Dollars: https://tinyurl.com/y95uvkao

******Follow me on******

Website: https://www.thedissenter.net/

The Dissenter Goodreads list: https://shorturl.at/7BMoB

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thedissenteryt/

Twitter: https://x.com/TheDissenterYT

This show is sponsored by Enlites, Learning & Development done differently. Check the website here: http://enlites.com/

Dr. Rebecca Newberger Goldstein is an American philosopher, novelist, and public intellectual. She is a MacArthur Fellow and has received the National Humanities Medal of the US, the National Jewish Book Award, and numerous other honors. She's the author of ten books, both fiction and nonfiction, including The Mind-Body Problem, Betraying Spinoza, and Plato at the Googleplex. Her latest book is The Mattering Instinct: How Our Deepest Longing Drives Us and Divides Us.

In this episode, we focus on The Mattering Instinct. We start by discussing what it is to matter, the mattering instinct, the social aspects of mattering, and four mattering types: socializers, transcenders, competitors, and heroic strivers. We talk about cosmic and biological mattering. We discuss whether mattering can be universalized, and an objective standard to distinguish between better and worse ways to respond to the mattering instinct. Finally, we talk about nihilism and absurdism, and whether the unexamined life is worth living.

A HUGE THANK YOU TO MY PATRONS/SUPPORTERS: PER HELGE LARSEN, BERNARDO SEIXAS, ADAM KESSEL, MATTHEW WHITINGBIRD, ARNAUD WOLFF, TIM HOLLOSY, HENRIK AHLENIUS, ROBERT WINDHAGER, RUI INACIO, ZOOP, MARCO NEVES, COLIN HOLBROOK, PHIL KAVANAGH, SAMUEL ANDREEFF, FRANCIS FORDE, TIAGO NUNES, FERGAL CUSSEN, HAL HERZOG, NUNO MACHADO, JONATHAN LEIBRANT, JOÃO LINHARES, STANTON T, SAMUEL CORREA, ERIK HAINES, MARK SMITH, JOÃO EIRA, TOM HUMMEL, SARDUS FRANCE, DAVID SLOAN WILSON, YACILA DEZA-ARAUJO, ROMAIN ROCH, YANICK PUNTER, CHARLOTTE BLEASE, NICOLE BARBARO, ADAM HUNT, PAWEL OSTASZEWSKI, NELLEKE BAK, GUY MADISON, GARY G HELLMANN, SAIMA AFZAL, ADRIAN JAEGGI, PAULO TOLENTINO, JOÃO BARBOSA, JULIAN PRICE, HEDIN BRØNNER, FRANCA BORTOLOTTI, GABRIEL PONS CORTÈS, URSULA LITZCKE, SCOTT, ZACHARY FISH, TIM DUFFY, SUNNY SMITH, JON WISMAN, WILLIAM BUCKNER, LUKE GLOWACKI, GEORGIOS THEOPHANOUS, CHRIS WILLIAMSON, PETER WOLOSZYN, DAVID WILLIAMS, DIOGO COSTA, ALEX CHAU, CORALIE CHEVALLIER, BANGALORE ATHEISTS, LARRY D. LEE JR., OLD HERRINGBONE, MICHAEL BAILEY, DAN SPERBER, ROBERT GRESSIS, JEFF MCMAHAN, JAKE ZUEHL, MARK CAMPBELL, TOMAS DAUBNER, LUKE NISSEN, KIMBERLY JOHNSON, JESSICA NOWICKI, LINDA BRANDIN, VALENTIN STEINMANN, ALEXANDER HUBBARD, BR, JONAS HERTNER, URSULA GOODENOUGH, DAVID PINSOF, SEAN NELSON, MIKE LAVIGNE, JOS KNECHT, LUCY, MANVIR SINGH, PETRA WEIMANN, CAROLA FEEST, MAURO JÚNIOR, TONY BARRETT, NIKOLAI VISHNEVSKY, STEVEN GANGESTAD, TED FARRIS, HUGO B., JORDAN MANSFIELD, CHARLOTTE ALLEN, PETER STOYKO, DAVID TONNER, LEE BECK, PATRICK DALTON-HOLMES, NICK KRASNEY, RACHEL ZAK, DENNIS XAVIER, CHINMAYA BHAT, RHYS, AND ALEX MACLEOD!

A SPECIAL THANKS TO MY PRODUCERS, YZAR WEHBE, JIM FRANK, ŁUKASZ STAFINIAK, TOM VANEGDOM, BERNARD HUGUENEY, CURTIS DIXON, BENEDIKT MUELLER, THOMAS TRUMBLE, KATHRINE AND PATRICK TOBIN, JONCARLO MONTENEGRO, NICK GOLDEN, CHRISTINE GLASS, IGOR NIKIFOROVSKI, AND PER KRAULIS!

AND TO MY EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS, MATTHEW LAVENDER,SERGIU CODREANU, AND GREGORY HASTINGS!