Long hours, 24/7 access, and crushing goals have become the norm in many workplaces. Jason Fried, co-author of the book, It Doesn’t Have to be Crazy at Work, thinks we need to stop celebrating this approach and, instead, actively work to create calmer organizations. Jason is the Co-founder and CEO of Basecamp, an incredibly successful project management and team communication software company. He’s written three other books about work —  Getting Real, Remote, and the New York Times Bestseller, Rework. In this interview we talk about: Why it’s invaluable to think of your organization as a product How curbing our ambition can be good for us and our customers Why we should understand that “a company is just a collection of choices” Reasons why leadership needs to defend their employees’ time from distractions The important role office hours can play in helping people focus Why we should embrace JOMO over FOMO The negative aspect of encouraging employees to think of each other as family What a trust battery can do for our relationships with others at work Why we should think twice before taking on projects we believe to be low-hanging fruit Why strong writing skills can be invaluable, no matter a person’s role at work Why expecting new employees to “hit the ground running” is unfair and inefficient What job candidates gain when leaders eliminate salary negotiations The value in supporting employee learning in areas of interest outside of work What everyone gains when we slow down how we make decisions about new ideas How to make a decision when team members disagree How building reading time into the start of a meeting can make the rest of the meeting more productive Links to Episode Topics @jasonfried https://basecamp.com/ Background on concept of disagree and commit A New York Times article on JOMO Morten Hansen on his book, Great at Work, on Episode 102 of Curious Minds Tobi Lutke and Shopify Article on Jeff Bezos and reading memos at the start of meetings If you enjoy the podcast, please rate and review it on iTunes - your ratings help others find their next podcast. For automatic delivery of new episodes, be sure to subscribe. And thank you for listening and sharing!