TCC Podcast #98: Making day rates work with Tarzan Kay

For the 98th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob bring back one of the most popular guests from the first few weeks of 2017—Tarzan Kay. Tarzan’s been a great friend to us (and the club) so we were thrilled to have her back to talk about how her business has changed in the year since we last talked and how having a baby forced her to change how she worked. We talked about: •  how her business has changed since we talked more than a year ago •  why (and how) she has moved to day rates for most of her projects today •  how day rates work and why clients like them •  what day-rate clients can expect as far as deliverables go •  what the day rate process and schedule looks like •  the next step for clients after they book their first day •  the place mindset plays with day rates and asking for more money •  ideas for stepping out of your own thoughts to work on mindset •  how you can identify your mindset around money •  her approach to affiliate launches and what she does to succeed •  the #1 lesson she’s learned from working with affiliates •  how she found balance through a major life-change •  her advice to copywriters who want to take their business to the next level Tarzan has built a following among copywriters working on their mindsets and looking for new models for their business. If you’re like them, you’ll want to listen in on this discussion. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. And of course you can also find it at iTunes, Stitcher or your favorite podcast app.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Tarzan’s first episode Denise Duffield Thomas Laura Belgray Julie Stoian B-School Copy School Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: Kira:   What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That's what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob:   You're invited to join the club for episode 98 as we chat with freelance copywriter, Tarzan Kay, for the second time about her business and what's changed over the past year. What it takes to do a successful affiliate promotion, getting over money issues and selling day rate intensive packages. Kira:   Welcome back Tarzan. Rob:   Hey Tarzan. Tarzan:   Thanks for having me back guys. Rob:   We are so excited to have you back. In fact, like you're one of the very rare few people that have come back to the show more than once. So thanks for doing that. Tarzan:    It's a real honor you know. I actually think you guys should do more episodes just the two of you, because I really like those ones. They're some of my favorites. Kira:   Awe, thank you for saying that. Rob:   Now, we'll let you go and Kira and I will talk ourselves. Kira:   And this interview is over, we are done. Rob:   Thanks, thanks for that. Hey let's start out by you catching us up on what's been going on in your business over the last year. Because, the last time we talked, and people can go back to that episode 9, 89 episodes ago, and check out what you said then. What's been going on for you over the past year? Tarzan:    Well, a lot has changed. So in August, I was surprised to learn that I was pregnant. Total surprise baby, which I wasn't planning for at all, and it threw a major monkey wrench into my plans, in the best way though. So, I had to adapt, and figure out how I was going to take time off and really change, kind of restructure a little bit. For one thing, I used way more hours with my VA and I've scaled that up since learning that I was pregnant. In January, and February since then, I've pretty much transitioned to day rate work almost exclusively. I have two clients who I just love the heck out of, so much, and I still do project based work for them. Everyone else, any new leads that's coming in, everyone is exclusively day rate work. Part of that was just because toward January and February, so the baby was due at the beginning of March, and I was kind of like, the baby could come early, I don't want to be booking a big project, that's going to require extensive research and lots of revisions and blah, blah, blah. So, I need to do something that could be flexible and also be really lucrative. Another crazy thing that happened, so in the meantime, we bought a house and sold our old house. Around some time mid-January, the deal went a little bit haywire and it ended up costing us an extra $25,000.00 to make all these sales go through. It totally wiped out my maternity savings fund. Starting in January, I have to start from zero now, and figure out how I'm going to be able to take time off. So, I did a little promo on my day rate, I did a ‘Buy one, get one half off’. I don't know, I suddenly got really confident about selling this offer and I started... I mean I've been doing day rate work for about a year, but it really clicked, like the real value of it and I was just going ‘Gangbusters’ with my sales calls. I just decided well, you know, that's what I decided to focus on. I like that kind of work, so I was able to completely replenish my fund and take some time off.  Which I am now, even though we are recording this podcast, I sort of semi-off. Kira:   Okay, alright. So there's a lot in there. Congratulations on having a baby! Tarzan:   Thank you. Kira:   I feel like this is a reason why I want to have another baby, at some point, because it would force me to develop systems and raise rates and do all these smart business changes that..kind of put some pressure on. Tarzan:   I love when someone I follow gets pregnant. And I'm like, ‘this is so great, I can't wait to see how she's going to do it’. Kira:   Or, if she'll fall apart. Tarzan:   It or both. Both are inevitable. Kira:   Let's talk about the day rate. I know we've had conversations about it in our Think Tank Group, but this is new to a lot of copywriters. So, can you explain, what it is exactly, why it's important, and where you started with it a year ago? Tarzan:   The thing is, with the type of leads that I get, so many of them want what they want, and they want it right now. When I was doing more project based work, it was like I have this really long wait list, and I'm turning away so many people and I didn't like that feeling. I also did not like the idea of hiring a junior copywriter. I'm not into the mentorship role as far as teaching copywriting. I didn't want to be responsible for someone else's work. So, I would end up turning people away and referring them, which didn't feel good. This day rate work is the solution, because people can get on my calendar a lot faster and they can get the results that they need a lot sooner. The thing is with these people that I'm working with, a lot of them are either optimizing an existing sales funnel, they're all selling courses by the way, they're mostly women in the personal development space, selling online courses. So some of them are coming up with their first course, and some of them are optimizing an existing sales funnel. In the case of them doing their first course, I don't really feel that good about selling someone a huge package, if they haven't really validated their offer. Maybe they have a small audience, that's a big issue with a lot of people; even if they have a great course, they don't have any reach yet, so it almost doesn't matter how great their sales funnel is. It's just like they are going to cap out at like $10,000.00. The day rate work solves a lot of different issues. Rob:   Let's talk about how this works then. Because you've got clients you work with on larger projects, how do you balance day rate clients against some of your larger clients, that you're doing work for on a regular basis and how do you make sure that someone feels like they are getting the value? When a new customer comes how much do you accomplish? Let's go really deep into this and talk about all of the things. Tarzan:   If I'm working on a project, I try not to have day rate clients over lapping. So, let's say, I am writing a sales page for one of my clients who's not doing a day rate thing. I would probably book two weeks out of my schedule for that, and I wouldn't do any day rate people in the meantime. It's kind of an either-or situation. Sometimes I'm doing both. Here's the thing about day rates. I get asked about it a lot and they want to have it all figured out before they ever make the offer. And you will never have it all figured out before you make the offer in terms of: how to sell it, how much you can do, and what's really going to delight the client, and what is going to leave them feeling like this wasn't worth it. All of that stuff, I've just learned as I go. I know other copywriters that do day rate work and I think they will also say, every project is different; and the way every copywriter does it is different. If you're going to do day rate work, I recommend putting the offer out there. Like, whatever it is. I started with a $1,000.00 a day. I worked with a couple clients at a 1,000 and I slowly raised it and raised and started to understand the value. And also became better able to estimate what I can do. That's really important. So if it feels scary to throw out a day rate of a few thousand dollars, well you can put out day rate that feels comfortable for you that you absolutely know you can deliver that value. Then just see how it goes. Initially when I first started doing this kind of work, that one day would often bleed into the next day. Or I would end up answering a lot of emails and doing a lot of strategy on the side, just because I wasn't able to keep it in the container of one day.