The Thinking Mind Podcast: Psychiatry & Psychotherapy E113 - What were they Thinking? Mentalisation Based Therapy (w/ Peter Fonagy & Anthony Batemen)
Feb 28, 2025
Peter Fonagy, a pioneering psychoanalyst, and Anthony Bateman, a leading psychiatrist, dive into the fascinating world of Mentalisation-Based Therapy (MBT). They discuss how a society lacking mentalizing breeds tribalism and echo chambers. The duo explores the impact of early attachment on mentalizing and offers insights into what an MBT session entails. They also consider the intriguing potential of combining MBT with psychedelics, while emphasizing the importance of trust in therapeutic settings. Their research offers hope for diverse personality disorders, including antisocial behaviors.
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Mentalization Is Core To Psychological Health
- Mentalization is the ability to understand one's own and others' thoughts, feelings, and intentions and is crucial for relationships and emotion regulation.
- MBT was developed to improve mentalizing, especially in emotional situations, and reduces self-harm and relational instability.
Social Media Erodes Public Mentalizing
- Non-mentalizing public debates become tribal, teleological, and emotionally charged, reducing nuanced discussion of beliefs.
- Peter Fonagy links social media, echo chambers, and loss of gatekeepers to worsening public mentalizing.
Attachment, Epistemic Trust, And Learning
- Mentalizing emerges from caregivers who reflect a child's mind and from a supportive community that enables epistemic trust.
- Attachment, mentalizing, and social learning form overlapping systems that sustain psychological development.