Ep 279: Upsolve’s Jonathan Petts and Ben Jackson on Building the TurboTax for Bankruptcy and Fighting UPL Restrictions
Feb 18, 2025
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Jonathan Petts, a former Wall Street lawyer and CEO of Upsolve, teams up with Ben Jackson, an ex-Uber driver and Upsolve's Chief Product Officer. They discuss their mission to make bankruptcy filing as accessible as tax prep, sharing their personal stories of overcoming debt. The duo unveils how Upsolve helps low-income families discharge $700 million in debt for free, their innovative use of AI, and their ongoing legal battles to challenge restrictions on legal assistance. They emphasize empowering financial futures for those in need.
Upsolve simplifies the bankruptcy filing process for low-income individuals, enabling them to eradicate over $700 million in debt without legal fees.
The organization is fighting UPL restrictions through a federal lawsuit, advocating for broader access to non-legal advice in financial distress situations.
Deep dives
Empowering Through Bankruptcy
Upsolve is designed to empower low-income individuals to navigate the bankruptcy process efficiently, primarily through Chapter 7 bankruptcy. The platform offers a user-friendly interface that parallels tax software, making filing for bankruptcy more accessible and understandable for those who cannot afford legal aid. By providing this service for free, Upsolve has enabled over 16,000 families to erase more than $700 million in debt, substantially improving their financial stability and creating a pathway towards a better economic future. This innovative approach addresses a critical gap in the legal system, ensuring that financial relief is available to those in dire circumstances without the burden of costly legal fees.
Innovative User Experience
The development of Upsolve involved creating tools that simplify the extensive and often complicated Chapter 7 bankruptcy form into a more accessible digital format. Initially, the process required significant manual input, but with continuous improvements, users can now complete their applications in about two hours. The team has also incorporated AI to streamline user interactions, offering on-demand, personalized assistance and ensuring that users can receive timely help with their queries throughout the process. These enhancements aim to reduce the attrition rate of users eager to file but facing barriers due to confusion or lack of personalized support.
Legal Challenges and Advocacy
Upsolve has confronted significant legal challenges, particularly regarding allegations of unauthorized practice of law (UPL) as it tried to expand its services in New York. By filing a lawsuit against the state, Upsolve argues that providing non-legal advice, particularly in helping individuals respond to debt collection lawsuits, is protected under the First Amendment. The ongoing legal battle highlights the struggle for access to justice in a system where only licensed attorneys are permitted to provide legal guidance, which disproportionately affects lower-income individuals. The outcome of this case could change the landscape of how legal support is provided and accessed in similar contexts nationwide.
Vision for the Future
Looking forward, Upsolve aims to expand its impact by enhancing its services and developing programs that can assist individuals before they reach the point of filing for bankruptcy. This includes creating comprehensive educational resources and partnerships that guide users through various debt relief options, such as debt management and settlement. The ultimate goal is to become a central hub for all things related to debt relief, navigating users through the financial challenges they face. By leveraging technology and community resources, Upsolve seeks to empower a greater number of individuals, facilitating improved financial health among low-income Americans.
When former Wall Street lawyer Jonathan Petts joined forces in 2016 with Rohan Pavuluri, then a research assistant in Harvard Law School’s Access to Justice Lab, and Mark Hansen, a software engineer, to create Upsolve, they had a simple but powerful vision: make bankruptcy filing as accessible as online tax preparation for Americans crushed by debt.
Today, their nonprofit has helped over 16,000 low-income families discharge more than $700 million in debt through Chapter 7 bankruptcy – all at no cost to users.
In this episode of LawNext, host Bob Ambrogi is joined by Petts, now Upsolve’s CEO, and Ben Jackson, an ex-Uber driver who joined Upsolve’s founding team after his first year of law school and who is now chief product officer. They share their personal journeys that led them to create Upsolve, from Petts' experience as a big firm lawyer helping pro bono clients get fresh starts to Jackson's own struggles with $60,000 in credit card debt.
They detail how Upsolve works, who it serves, and how they maintain quality while providing free services.They also discuss how they're leveraging AI to expand their impact, their battle against unauthorized practice of law restrictions in a groundbreaking federal lawsuit in New York, and their mission to help Americans rebuild their financial futures.
Thank You To Our Sponsors
This episode of LawNext is generously made possible by our sponsors. We appreciate their support and hope you will check them out.
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