Former Prime Minister Paul Keating has said of AUKUS that "we don't need to be a pair of shoes hanging out of America's backside". Is that a fair characterisation of Australia's position vis a vis AUKUS? Are we getting the short end of the stick with this deal, and sacrificing our sovereignty to boot? 

GUESTS:

Sam Roggeveen - Director of the Lowy Institute’s International Security Program. He is the author of The Echidna Strategy: Australia’s Search for Power and Peace

Malcolm Turnbull - 29th Prime Minister of Australia 2015-2018.

Richard Marles - the Deputy Prime Minister of Australia, Minister for Defence and the Federal Member for Corio.

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