The podcast discusses the concept of the end of growth and the importance of mindset and behavior change. It explores the drawbacks of green growth and the challenges of maintaining economic growth. The unrealistic goals of reducing emissions and the tie between economic growth and environmental damage are also discussed. The concept of equality and the feasibility of green growth are questioned, along with the need for intervention to prevent disaster. The chapter also emphasizes the need for a change in mindset to mitigate potential crises in the financial and currency systems.
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Quick takeaways
The podcast discusses the importance of recognizing a third scenario, the end of growth, as a critical aspect that should be included in discussions about de-growth and green growth.
The limitations of the green growth narrative are highlighted, including the drawbacks of GDP per capita as a measure of progress, the failure of technological innovations to effectively reduce emissions, and the finite availability of low-cost energy.
Deep dives
The End of Growth: A Third Scenario
In this podcast episode, the speaker reflects on a debate about de-growth and green growth, highlighting the absence of a third scenario: the end of growth. The speaker argues that growth will eventually come to a sharp decline, despite the prevailing narratives of green tech-driven and democratically reduced production. This decline will lead to a significant impact on the size of economies, empowering individuals and communities to change their mindset and behaviors. The speaker also critiques the green growth narrative, highlighting the limitations of GDP per capita as a measure of progress and the adverse relationship between growth and climate change. Furthermore, the speaker argues that the complexity of the global economic system, coupled with financial and environmental issues, complicates wealth transfers and quick fixes.
The Flaws of Green Growth
Another focus of the podcast episode is the flaws of the green growth narrative. The speaker agrees with some points made by Sam Fankhauser during the debate, such as GDP per capita being an inadequate measure of progress and the importance of income in climate adaptation. However, the speaker disputes the claim that green growth can effectively reduce emissions, pointing out that technological innovations tend to be funneled back into energy and material consumption. Additionally, the speaker challenges the notion that increasing energy efficiency will bring emissions down, emphasizing the lack of evidence for this on a global scale. The speaker also raises concerns about the finite availability of low-cost energy and the disregard of other planetary boundaries beyond carbon and climate in the green growth narrative.
Philosophical Reflections on Degrowth
The podcast episode delves into the philosophy of degrowth as presented by Jason Hickel in the debate. The speaker agrees with Hickel's critique of the current economic system, which prioritizes profit over human needs, perpetuates inequality, and depends on resource influx from the Global South. However, the speaker questions the feasibility of decoupling emissions from GDP and highlights the environmental implications of scaling a renewable energy economy. Moreover, the speaker critiques the assumption that a wealth transfer would lead to energy use reductions and improved equality, arguing that the elasticity of consumption and the environmental footprint associated with wealth redistribution should be considered. The speaker concludes by advocating for conscious preparedness for an eventual end of growth, suggesting that it is crucial to anticipate and plan for this scenario while working towards meaningful distribution and systemic changes.
Earlier this week there was a livestream debate highlighting the key points of the Green Growth and DeGrowth perspectives - this week's Frankly adds a 3rd 'growth critical' perspective - that modern society has a metabolism and momentum and will grow - in non-green ways - until we can't. This is a critical third category that should be included in these discussions, despite its 'tougher sell'.