Talking about ecological economics often invokes the mentioning of limits. Ecological and social limits to growth are often brought up in the context where we need to respect these external boundaries and restrain ourselves accordingly. Today’s guest, Giorgos Kallis in his book Limits puts forward an unusual but compelling argument that instead of seeing a world where human wants are unlimited and the environment limits them, we should start seeing a world where human desires are limited, and the ecological environment is abundant. While his line of thought is unorthodox in so many ways, understanding it should be essential to all those who are concerned about our growth-frantic world. Hosted by Alexandra Köves. Edited by Aidan Knox.