Shameless Popery #217 Responding to Gavin Ortlund’s “The Papacy is Not From God” - Joe Heschmeyer
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Oct 21, 2025 Joe Heschmeyer dives into a spirited rebuttal of Gavin Ortlund's claim that the papacy lacks divine origin. He dissects the early church's leadership, challenging the notion that Rome had no singular bishop. Joe highlights early texts like the Didache and Ignatius of Antioch to assert multiple church roles. He explores the historical continuity of bishops in Rome, referencing Irenaeus and the Shepherd of Hermas. The conversation raises intriguing questions about divine church structures versus alternatives, leaving listeners contemplating the roots of church governance.
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Doctrinal Claim Requires Historical Test
- If the doctrine of the papacy is true, everyone should be Catholic; if false, no one should be Catholic.
- Joe frames Gavin's question as exactly the right test for the papacy's historical claim.
Didache Doesn’t Support 'Only Two Offices'
- The Didache's offices are disputed and its listing can't settle a strict two-office claim.
- Joe shows Gavin truncated the Didache line, which actually mentions bishops, deacons, prophets, and teachers.
Clement’s Letter Implies Threefold Order
- 1 Clement uses Jewish threefold priesthood imagery to argue for ordered ministry, not literal two-tier shorthand.
- Joe argues Clement’s language supports a distinct bishop role despite occasional shorthand terms.
