TCC Podcast Episode #228: Being a Student of the Craft of Copywriting with Eddie Biroun

On the 228th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, we’re joined by Eddie Biroun. Eddie is a conversion copywriter for e-comm and education brands and a forever learner of his craft. After fumbling into copywriting, he knew it was something he wanted to commit to for the long run. He became intrigued with understanding branding and what truly makes a brand stand the test of time. During our conversation, we talked about going from professional student to professional copywriter and how you can make the same leap. We also talked about: •   why stages of awareness are important and why buzzwords don’t create a connection •   failing and how you can (and should) make it work to your advantage •   how expecting a perfect first draft is like looking for a unicorn •   going from obtaining knowledge and skills in copywriting to putting it into action •   Eddie’s process in downloading the voice of a new client and why it’s important to effective copy •   how your creative artist and managerial side have to be separate when writing the first draft •   why feedback (even negative feedback) is essential to becoming a better copywriter •   choosing projects and people who empower you and respect your craft •   how learning and improving will always be a part of copywriting and it doesn’t need to be something you learn in a day •   how having a mentor speeds up the process because direct feedback is readily available •   where to look for red flags and how using your gut can save you a lot of headaches •   why building a better relationship with your mind will help you tackle imposter syndrome when it comes up (because it does for all of us) •   why taking care of your life side of things is vital to take care of the work side of things •   how copywriters have the power to make other people’s dreams come true (we are wizards after all) •   copywriting isn’t just a flippant task, it’s the infrastructure for long-term success •   why having a morning routine will keep you focused when in the copy cave (did we mention this includes reading?) •   how to navigate through writer’s block when perfectionism or ideas need to be uncovered Need a dose of motivation to stop going into information overload and start applying what you’re learning? This episode with Eddie might do just the trick. Hit the play button below (or read the transcript below!) The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Almanack of Naval How to Create Your Copywriter Website (written by Eddie) Eddie's Instagram Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground   Full Transcript: Rob:   Getting better at copywriting, this thing that we all do, isn't easy. And sometimes we get stuck in a project, we get stuck getting started or we get stuck struggling to find clients. Our guest for the 228th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast is Eddie Biroun. Eddie is the kind of copywriter who hates getting stuck and he's figured out what it takes to get moving again when he has gotten stuck. In fact, he's made dramatic improvements over the past year or two in how fast he writes, in the quality of his writing and the kinds of clients that he's working with. We think that you're going to get quite a bit from the experiences that Eddie shares in this interview. Kira:   Before we share our interview with Eddie, this podcast episode is brought to you by TCC (Not) In Real Life, our event for copywriters and other smart marketers who want to learn from experts like Joanna Wiebe, Todd Brown, Jereshia Hawk, Joel Klettke, Momo Price, and so many others like them. But it's not just about speakers and presentations and sitting through more Zoom calls because you don't need that. TCC IRL is really famous for connecting copywriters with each other and helping you to form real relationships, even friendships, potentially partnerships with other copywriters and marketers. To learn more, visit thecopywriterclub.com/tccnirl-2021. There's also a link to that in the show notes, if you want to check out the event page. Rob:   Let's jump right into our interview with Eddie telling us how he became a copywriter. Eddie Biroun:   I ended up in copywriting like most people do, I fumbled my way into it. I had been doing it without even realizing I'd done it. I was doing a lot of content writing and I was just generally doing a lot of advertising work. My first very marketing job was, I had a buddy who owned all the screens at our universities, all the TV screens and he was selling ad spaces using that. So I was the guy that was just coming around, knocking on doors around local businesses saying, "Hey, you want students to come and spend money here, right? Well, we've got all these TVs." It was a sales job, so it was tough, you're not going to get paid until somebody says yes. So what I was trying to do is sweeten the deal by offering them ad copy and graphic design. I didn't know what the word copywriting was back then, but I just knew that words go in an advertising piece. So people like that, and I was closing deals. Eventually I got a chance to work in the newspaper world and came across the idea of content writing and saw that as very magical because local businesses like, there's this mom and pop shop, Indian restaurant in a little tucked away part of town that was really nervous about investing in a piece with the newspaper. It was like 30,000 bucks, which was a lot of money for them. And we ran it and their phones wouldn't stop ringing. And all of a sudden, we had just changed their lives. They were all of a sudden booming, they were booked for the entire month. And I thought that's crazy. We wrote a cool really... It seems like magic, we wrote this little story and it completely revolutionized their lives, and I got really intrigued by that. And I want to learn more about how to write better, how to come up with interesting hooks and stuff. And that led me into trying to do stuff on the side. I had a buddy who wanted some SEO blog posts and like a moron, I was selling them for 50 bucks a pop, but I was so intoxicated at the idea of that somebody would pay me to write them and that my writing was actually good enough to get paid for. So I did that. And obviously you stop being intoxicated by it by the eighth time, you're like, okay, this is a lot of work. The 50 bucks isn't really that alluring. And then you realize you can double your rate and people will probably still come back if you're doing a really good job. So that's how I got started. And then I eventually started doing some sales pages and landing pages, somebody gave me an Instapage account, Unbounce account. And I just had a lot of fun bringing it to life, putting the visuals together, getting the copyright. But what happened is whenever I would start a new one, it would be a month or two later. I would go back into that account; I'd look at the page I had put together in the first place and all the numbers were at zero. There was zero conversions and it really bothered me. I'm like, wait, what's going on? I did such a good job, at least I thought I did a good job. I put so much hard work into it. Why is this not happening? I went down this rabbit hole of trying to figure that out. And it's like, Oh, wait a minute. It's this whole concept of conversion rate optimization. Wait a minute, there's this whole universe of copywriting. Like there's Eugene Schwartz, just a whole universe that I'm completely ignorant to. And I'm like, okay, well I got to catch myself up. I got to get up to speed with this. I would like came across this idea of copywriting, which was so foreign to me. Honestly even now I think of copywriting, it really feels like Harry Potter, like you guys know who I am. I know who you are. We all know each other. We know what the kind of work we do, but an outsider when I try to... They're like, what do you do? I'm like, I'm a copywriter. They don't know what that word is. So it's like, I'm talking to a muggle almost, they just have no concept of it. Kira:   So are you saying we're wizards? Are we wizards now? Eddie Biroun:   I believe so, we do very unimaginable things. Kira:   You're making us a lot cooler than I think we are. That's great. I'll take it, we're wizards. Rob:   I'm not sure I will look good in the robes. Or with the beard- Eddie Biroun:   Okay, man. It's all in the one swing man. Rob:   Yeah. Eddie Biroun:   Yeah. That's how I fell into it. Just like I started with a bit of content writing and then I started doing a bit of sales pages and it just didn't work. And I was trying to figure out why. Because I was just obsessed with the idea of how do I solve this Rubik's cube? Because I felt like I did a good job, so why is not converting? And then I started learning about, okay, well your traffic sources matter, and the amount of things to those people, the traffic sources they had been exposed to before they even hit that page. All of these things matter, stages of awareness and all that stuff. And just like the rhetoric that you're presenting on the page, you can't just be frivolous, you can't just use nice buzzwords. You have to be very particular and very meaningful in the words you use that speaks to the person that's going to read it. I just fell in love with it. I don't know. I guess I'm a nerd. I just thought that stuff was really cool and I enjoyed learning it, applying it and getting results out of it. Especially from clients, when they were happy, I was happy. Rob:   So Eddie, when I listen to you talk about this progression in your career, it seems to me like as you needed to learn something suddenly the resources are there or you spot the opportunity. Is there something about your approach to work where you're keeping an idea on the next thing to learn or the next thing to do or the missing piece that you need to add?