University of Minnesota Press

Judith Butler and Talia Mae Bettcher talk philosophy, personhood, resistance

Apr 23, 2025

Join Talia Mae Bettcher, a philosophy professor and author of "Beyond Personhood", in conversation with Judith Butler, a leading voice in feminist and gender studies. They delve into the complexities of trans identity, discussing the damaging political narratives surrounding trans rights and the need for an evolved understanding of personhood. Bettcher introduces groundbreaking ideas like interpersonal spatiality and critiques traditional identity constructs. Their dialogue highlights philosophy as a form of resistance and offers profound insights into navigating contemporary challenges faced by trans individuals.

46:46

Creator website

Episode guests

Judith Butler

Talia Mae Bettcher

AI Summary

AI Chapters

Episode notes

Podcast summary created with Snipd AI

Quick takeaways

Talia Mae Bettcher's critique of traditional philosophical concepts of personhood highlights their connection to violence against marginalized identities, particularly trans individuals.

The concept of interpersonal spatiality promotes a relational understanding of identity, emphasizing genuine connections over individualistic notions of self and subject.

Deep dives

Resistance Through Language

The discussion emphasizes that writing can be a form of resistance, particularly in addressing trans issues. The author, Talia Mae Boettcher, argues against a philosophical approach that treats trans identities as mere topics of academic debate, proposing instead that discourse must be rooted in genuine lived experiences. By critiquing conventional philosophical systems that perpetuate violence against marginalized identities, she seeks to redefine how these identities are understood and represented. The intention behind her writing is to foster nonviolence and awareness of the implications of language in shaping societal perceptions of trans individuals.

Intro

2min

Reimagining Personhood and Violence

25min

Challenging Trans Narratives: Rights and Realities

7min

Reinterpreting Trans Existence: Beyond Simplistic Narratives

3min

Exploring Self-Perception Through Reflection and Relationality

5min

Philosophy as Resistance in a Troubling Era

5min

Talia Mae Bettcher’s Beyond Personhood provides an entirely new philosophical approach to trans experience, trans oppression, gender dysphoria, and the relationship between gender and identity. Arguing that the tense relation between trans oppression and resistance is mediated through the complex social phenomenon of gender make-believe, Bettcher introduces the groundbreaking theory of interpersonal spatiality, which requires rejection of the philosophical concepts of person, self, and subject. Here, Bettcher is joined in conversation with Judith Butler.

Talia Mae Bettcher is professor of philosophy at California State University, Los Angeles, and author of Beyond Personhood: An Essay in Trans Philosophy and coeditor of Trans Philosophy.

Judith Butler is Distinguished Professor in the Graduate School at the University of California, Berkeley. They are author of several books including Gender Trouble: Feminism and the Subversion of Identity and, most recently, Who’s Afraid of Gender?

Praise for the book:

"It's a beautiful book. Challenging, crucial, indispensable to our times."
—Judith Butler (in this episode)

"Profound and provocative . . . broadly relevant to many disciplines and social movements."
—Susan Stryker, Clayman Institute for Gender Research, Stanford University

Beyond Personhood: An Essay in Trans Philosophy is available from University of Minnesota Press.

Remember Everything You Learn from Podcasts

Save insights instantly, chat with episodes, and build lasting knowledge - all powered by AI.

University of Minnesota Press

Judith Butler and Talia Mae Bettcher talk philosophy, personhood, resistance

Episode guests

Podcast summary created with Snipd AI

Quick takeaways

Deep dives

Resistance Through Language

Abusive Assumptions about Personhood

Interpersonal Spatiality and Relationality

Reality Enforcement and Trans Existence

Remember Everything You Learn from Podcasts