The Spirit of Justice, Trump and Abortion, and Church Growth

Diana Butler Bass hosts this “grab bag” episode with Jemar Tisby, Robert P. Jones, and Kristin Du Mez. Jemar talks about his new book, "The Spirit of Justice: True Stories of Faith, Race, and Resistance,” which was just published this week. And Robby gives a preview of his analysis of Christian nationalism in the new Afterword in the paperback edition of "The Hidden Roots of White Supremacy and the Path to a Shared American Future,” which will be published next week. We also talk about Trump’s awkward flip-flops on abortion--which are anything but “pro-life”--but which seem not to matter at all to his white Christian Right base. In the second half of the show, we tackle the disintegration of the “church growth” industry in the wake of the rapid decline of white evangelicals over the past two decades, delve into a 2016 interview J.D. Vance gave about his conversion from evangelicalism to high-brow Catholicism, and flag the growing evidence of Russian money stoking some of the loudest online voices on the right.