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The Verso Podcast

Abolition Geography | Ruth Wilson Gilmore & Dalia Gebrial

May 18, 2023
Prison abolitionist Ruth Wilson Gilmore and critical geographer Dalia Gebrial discuss topics such as racial capitalism, critical geography, and the role of prisons in addressing societal issues. They explore the connection between racism and capitalism, the use of race as a governing tool, and the challenges faced in narrating innocence. The podcast also covers the impact of platforms on racialized migrant workers, resistance to defunding prisons and policing, and the role of policing in the London taxi economy.
01:30:52

Podcast summary created with Snipd AI

Quick takeaways

  • Abolition challenges the notion of innocence and aims for freedom, exposing the contradictions of capitalism and racism.
  • Critical geography helps understand how systems like prisons and platforms perpetuate racial capitalism and inequality.

Deep dives

Racial capitalism and the limitations of innocence

The podcast explores the concept of racial capitalism and the idea that people are never innocent enough to have basic needs met, such as housing, healthcare, and clean air. The notion of innocence is seen as a barrier to entry for a good quality of life. Abolition is presented as a movement that challenges the notion of innocence and aims for freedom. The conversation delves into the contradictions of capitalism and racism, highlighting how they are intertwined and how they perpetuate inequality. The discussion also touches on the devolution of risk and the role of platforms in racial capitalism, as well as the need for organizing and solidarity to confront these systems.

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