Among his recent executive orders, Donald Trump moved to halt aid to South Africa over a land law and extended political asylum to South Africa’s white Afrikaner population.

Where does Trump’s seemingly spotty understanding of South Africa come from? How could having close advisors who grew up in apartheid-era South Africa, like Elon Musk, influence him?

Guest: Chris McGreal, writer for The Guardian US who reported from South Africa during the end of apartheid.

Want more What Next? Join Slate Plus to unlock full, ad-free access to What Next and all your other favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the What Next show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.

Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, Rob Gunther, and Ethan Oberman.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What Next | Trump’s South Africa Fixation