Episode 139 – Project Managers, People Managers

The podcast by project managers for project managers.  Project managers or people managers? In this episode we talk about leadership development and the project manager’s role in creating self-sustaining and cohesive teams. Hear about steps for building high-performing teams that function independently and effectively, and how to create a healthy culture and strong team alignment. Table of Contents 01:37 … Leadership Development Areas for Project Managers03:00 … Adapting Leadership to Evolving Teams07:40 … Behavioral Differences in High- and Low-Performing Teams09:26 … An Agile Approach10:05 … Healthy Culture in Hybrid Environment11:52 … Being Intentional about Equity and Inclusion13:27 … How do I Know They’re Doing Their Work?16:13 … Creating Project Team Alignment17:58 … What is Getting in Your Way?21:01 … How Do You Get People Aligned?24:00 … Reward and Recognition Systems27:13 … Providing Constructive Feedback29:22 … Strengthen Relationships with Senior Manager or Sponsors33:06 … Get in touch with Ken33:23 … Closing KEN WAGNER: ...the more information that people have about the bigger picture, the more they can connect their piece to the, not just to the overall mission, but also their piece of the overall outcome, the more they are to contribute in ways beyond their specific function. WENDY GROUNDS:  Welcome to Manage This, the podcast by project managers for project managers.  I’m Wendy Grounds, and in the studio today with me is Bill Yates. I must apologize, there are a few gremlins in the audio for some reason.  So we apologize if the audio is not quite as clear.   Today we’re talking with Ken Wagner.  Ken is a senior principal for ALULA.  ALULA is a management consultancy.  And he’s talking to us from Jacksonville, Florida.  Ken has a passion for helping leaders be successful. BILL YATES:  Yeah.  Ken is an expert.  He’s even got his Ph.D. in Behavioral Science.  And we know project managers have to get things done through people.  And people are complex beings.  Right?  Some days I’m excited about working.  Some days I’m not as excited about it. WENDY GROUNDS:  It’s a complex thing. BILL YATES:  Yes, yes.  So not only does Ken have expertise in an area that’s of keen interest to me and project managers, but he’s also worked across all industries.  He’s coached managers and C-Suite level executives in all different industries, and I know he’s going to be able to add a lot to our conversation about managing projects and managing people to get things done. WENDY GROUNDS:  Hi, Ken.  Thanks for joining us, and welcome to Manage This. KEN WAGNER:  Well, good morning.  Thank you for having me. Leadership Development Areas for Project Managers WENDY GROUNDS:  We want to pick your brain on leadership and leading project teams today.  What leadership development areas are important for project managers? KEN WAGNER:  Ah.  Boy, that’s a great question.  You know, many project managers are certainly skilled at change technology and project technology.  But much of that job, as I see it, is about influence, and ultimately about positive influence skills.  And so when I think about the most effective project managers, I notice that those that give direction in objective terms, can clearly describe what they want people to accomplish, what they want them to do, tend to have more success.  Those who frequently do alignment checks, so they ask probing questions to make sure that people are hearing what they think they’re hearing, or understanding what they think they’re understanding, they provide lots of feedback – feedback not only on outcomes, but on what people are doing and how they’re doing it.  And they do that in ways that are timely, and they do that in ways that are actionable. And then the last skill that is often overlooked is that they tend to be good at positive reinforcement, meaning they attend to the things that they want more of, things that add the most value.  So they focus more on getting good things repeated as opposed to trying to correct the few things that aren’t quite right. Adapting Leadership to Evolving Teams BILL YATES:  These are powerful.  You just filled up my cereal bowl with, like, you know, five really powerful points there.  That’s great stuff.  One of the things that I think we all experience with teams is, you know, teams are like kids.  They grow up.  So my kids need something, you know, when they’re six to eight years old, and then they need a different parenting skill when they’re 12 to 14 years old, as teenagers.  Sometimes our project teams have all been to those teenage years.  Then they step on out beyond that.  How can project managers adapt their leadership as teams grow up, as they evolve? KEN WAGNER:  First of all, that’s a fantastic analogy.  I love that.  Teams do evolve, and project teams, but also intact teams evolve, as well, and the skills required for even implementing initiatives change over time, as people get better and expectations change.  So I guess there’s a few things that we often see are helpful.  The first is in the beginning of an initiative or beginning of a project.  We want to build a behavior roadmap.  But we have identified critical behaviors for all project team members.  What are the most important things we need people to do in, say, 12 months from now? So towards the end of the project we’re looking at sort of ideal state.  What does a high-functioning project team look like?  That’s a great place to start, but that’s usually a long way off where people are.  So we plan it.  Twelve months is arbitrary, but we build the ideal state.  And then we back up and we say, first 30 days.  What do those behaviors actually look like in the first 30 days?  And essentially they’re an approximation.  You’re either doing part of the ideal behaviors, or you’re doing them in a different way.  And then in the intermediate step we build maybe a 120-day plan.  So how do those behaviors evolve as the project matures and as the team matures together? So we have an ideal state.  We have a first state.  We have a mid-state.  And those behaviors change in either frequency, consistency, or some behaviors change altogether.  The other couple of things that I think are important when you do that is adjusting the metrics, as well.  So we often start a project with frequency metrics.  So how often are we doing things?  How often are we meeting?  How often are we adding input?  Over time we want to shift those metrics to more quality metrics.  So we’re meeting more often.  But when we meet, are we accomplishing things?  Ultimately we want to build metrics that account for collaboration.  So the metrics require two or more people’s input to achieve them. The last thing I would say is, and this goes to your first question, the skills for project managers, the best project managers then create an environment where they’re facilitating peer feedback and peer reinforcement, as well.  And that’s not going to happen in the beginning.  So as you talk about evolution, that’s the project manager’s responsibility until the team really begins to become cohesive.  And then that project manager fades out that role, and the team is really self-sustaining.  And when you get that, you can have high-performing teams function largely independently, but effectively.  But if you try to do all that stuff right up front, to your point, if you try to parent in a teenage way for a toddler, you’re really going to miss the mark. BILL YATES:  Yeah.  This really hits home with me.  As you’re describing the kind of a 30-day, 120-day, 365-day plan, it’s so logical, and I’m sitting here kicking myself, thinking why have I not seen that connection between what I do with an individual employee, when I onboard a new employee, I should be taking this same mindset to a team, and I think project managers should, as well.  There’s a great book out there, “The First 90 Days.” KEN WAGNER:  Yes. BILL YATES:  This advice is so logical for project managers to step through and think, okay, describe very clearly and upfront, what is ideal team behavior?  What does it look like?  And then do those check-ins.  And I think for some of our project managers who want a checklist, and they want to put stuff on their schedule, you’ve given them that formula.  So this is good, useful stuff. KEN WAGNER:  Yeah, and I think one of the key points that you just said is important, that most people start the project, and they’re thinking right now, what do we have to do to get going?  But a lot of the things that we teach are about starting with the end in mind and working backwards so you can get alignment along the way.  It’s a little more effortful and time-consuming upfront.  But, boy, it pays off in the long run. Behavioral Differences in High- and Low-Performing Teams WENDY GROUNDS:  There has been such a change in our work environment in remote and hybrid teams.  What are some differences, some behavioral differences that you’re seeing in high- and low-performing project teams within the context of remote and hybrid workforce? KEN WAGNER:  Yeah, boy, this is becoming so common, where we’ve got a group of people working onsite and a group of people remotely.  The high-performing teams that we’ve seen, they make an effort to establish the norms.  And those norms of the team working together are obviously different than if they were together.  And so upfront they set the expectation of are we working flexible hours?  Are we not working flexible hours?  Are we going to work issues together simultaneously?  Or are we going to work them offline and then come back together?  And really look at people’s strengths and people’s preferences and then create those norms around that situation that they have. Another thing we see, and you’ll hear this all the time, but it is still true:  more communication.  And so it’s not just over communicating.