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The internet started with curation, where users curated content like music and books. This then shifted to recommendation, where algorithms took over. Now, we're entering the generative era, where new technologies like AI will have a significant impact. The challenge is to rethink user interface and user experience for this new era.
AI has had a significant impact on Spotify's product development. The podcast discusses how AI is used in various functionalities, such as improving recommendations, creating personalized voice experiences, and assisting in the music generation process. It also highlights the challenges of using AI to recommend completely new genres to users and the need to balance familiarity with the discovery of new content.
Spotify has evolved its team structure over time. While it initially adopted a squad and tribe model, it has shifted towards a more traditional and scaled approach. Instead of small autonomous teams, Spotify now has larger teams with less overhead and more senior leadership. The focus is on centralizing decision-making at the VP level, allowing for a mix of autonomy and coordination to optimize product development.
Spotify recently redesigned its primary feed to enhance discovery and break users out of their taste bubbles. The launch faced mixed feedback, with some users criticizing the changes. Spotify learned that balancing recall and discovery is crucial, as users primarily use the homepage for recall rather than discovery. The company realized the importance of maintaining the strengths of their existing features while incorporating new discovery tools. By testing and iterating, Spotify aims to create a better product that satisfies user needs in both recall and discovery.
Trying new things and adopting new technologies is crucial for growth and staying relevant. While it may be easier and safer to stick with what is familiar, embracing new paradigms and technologies is necessary for progress. Iteration may be comfortable, but it does not offer the same potential for innovation. The key is to strike a balance between staying true to core principles while being open to experimentation and change.
When making significant changes or introducing new features, it is essential to gather and analyze data, conduct user research, and listen to user feedback. By testing different variants and iterating based on quantitatve data and user insights, companies can refine their products/services and make informed decisions. The process can be challenging and involve considerable investment, but being open to feedback, staying scientific, and adapting based on evidence can lead to valuable improvements.
Brought to you by Microsoft Clarity—See how people actually use your product | Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments | Eco—Your most rewarding app
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Gustav Söderström is the Co-President and Chief Product and Technology Officer at Spotify. He is responsible for Spotify’s global product and technology strategy, overseeing the product, design, data, and engineering teams. Prior to Spotify, he founded 13th Lab, a startup that was later acquired by Facebook’s Oculus. He also served as the Director of Product and Business Development for Yahoo Mobile and founded Kenet Works, a company focused on community software for mobile phones, which was acquired by Yahoo in 2006. In today’s episode, we discuss:
• How Spotify structures product teams to promote freedom of thought
• Lessons on thinking long-term and navigating negative feedback
• Why Gustav started a podcast and what he’s learned
• How AI has impacted the work PMs, engineers, and designers do within Spotify
• AI-generated music and its impact on artists
• What’s next for Spotify and Spotify Podcasting
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Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/lessons-from-scaling-spotify-the-science-of-product-taking-risky-bets-and-how-ai-is-already-impacting-the-future-of-music-gustav-soderstrom-co-president-cpo-and-cto-at-spotify/#transcript
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Where to find Gustav Söderström:
• Twitter: https://twitter.com/GustavS
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gustavsoderstrom/
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Where to find Lenny:
• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com
• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/
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In this episode, we cover:
(00:00) Gustav’s background
(04:08) The various roles Gustav has occupied at Spotify
(06:54) Why Gustav launched a podcast and what he learned
(12:37) How PMs and product teams should think about AI
(21:23) AI-generated music
(26:19) Will AI continue to be a magic trick for products?
(28:27) How Spotify organizes product teams
(34:33) How Spotify operationalized autonomy
(35:45) Why Spotify uses a centralized model for structuring their organization
(43:34) The big bet Spotify took with redesigning its interface, and what they learned
(57:26) How they tested their hypothesis before launch
(1:02:35) Gustav’s “10% planning time” methodology
(1:03:53) How to bring energy and clarity to your work
(1:08:07) How to systematize deep thinking
(1:10:29) The peeing-in-your-pants analogy
(1:11:38) Thoughts on how the Swedish culture is portrayed in Succession
(1:13:30) What’s next for Spotify and Spotify Podcasting
(1:15:52) Lightning round
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Referenced:
• Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/
• Daniel Ek: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-ek-1b52093a/
• Spotify: A Product Story podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/3L9tzrt0CthF6hNkxYIeSB
• Spotify’s AI DJ: https://newsroom.spotify.com/2023-02-22/spotify-debuts-a-new-ai-dj-right-in-your-pocket/
• Avicii: https://avicii.com/
• DALL-E: https://openai.com/product/dall-e-2
• Stable Diffusion: https://stability.ai/
• Midjourney: https://www.midjourney.com/
• Brian Chesky: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianchesky/
• Succession on HBO: https://www.hbo.com/succession
• Fjällräven: https://www.fjallraven.com/us/en-us
• 7 Powers: The Foundations of Business Strategy: https://www.amazon.com/7-Powers-Foundations-Business-Strategy
• Charlie Munger: The Complete Investor: https://www.amazon.com/Charlie-Munger-Tren-Griffin
• The Mystery of the Aleph: Mathematics, the Kabbalah, and the Search for Infinity: https://www.amazon.com/Mystery-Aleph-Mathematics-Kabbalah-Infinity
• Something Deeply Hidden: Quantum Worlds and the Emergence of Spacetime: https://www.amazon.com/Something-Deeply-Hidden
• Helgoland: Making Sense of the Quantum Revolution: https://www.amazon.com/Helgoland-Making-Sense-Quantum-Revolution
• The Beginning of Infinity: Explanations That Transform the World: https://www.amazon.com/The-Beginning-of-Infinity
• The Fabric of Reality: The Science of Parallel Universes—and Its Implications: https://www.amazon.com/The-Fabric-of-Reality
• The Case Against Reality: Why Evolution Hid the Truth from Our Eyes: https://www.amazon.com/The-Case-Against-Reality-audiobook/dp/B07VL5TCVF/ref=sr_1_1
• Gödel’s Proof: https://www.amazon.com/G%C3%B6dels-Proof-Ernest-Nagel
• The Demon in the Machine: How Hidden Webs of Information Are Solving the Mystery of Life: https://www.amazon.com/Demon-Machine-Information-Solving-Mystery
• Halt and Catch Fire on Apple TV: https://tv.apple.com/us/show/halt-and-catch-fire/umc.cmc.5s15r46uj0wx044tipm2zoh88
• Duolingo: https://www.duolingo.com/
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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.
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Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.
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