Lenny's Podcast: Product | Growth | Career

Lessons from scaling Spotify: The science of product, taking risky bets, and how AI is already impacting the future of music | Gustav Söderström (Co-President, CPO, and CTO at Spotify)

May 21, 2023

Gustav Söderström, the Co-President and Chief Product Officer at Spotify, shares insights from his impressive career, including building innovative products and navigating challenges. He discusses Spotify's structural evolution for product development and how AI is transforming the music landscape. Gustav highlights the delicate balance between user feedback and innovation during the redesign of Spotify's feed. He also explores the impact of AI-generated music on artists and muses about the future of podcasting at Spotify.

01:24:30

Creator website

Episode guests

Gustav Söderström

AI Summary

Highlights

AI Chapters

Episode notes

Podcast summary created with Snipd AI

Quick takeaways

AI's impact on Spotify's product development

Spotify's shift towards a more traditional team structure

The importance of balancing recall and discovery in product design

Deep dives

Shifting from Curation to Recommendation to Generation

The internet started with curation, where users curated content like music and books. This then shifted to recommendation, where algorithms took over. Now, we're entering the generative era, where new technologies like AI will have a significant impact. The challenge is to rethink user interface and user experience for this new era.

What’s Next For Spotify in Podcasting?

02:18

Autonomy and Decision-Making in Organizational Structure

01:20

Walking and talking.

01:59

The Importance of Data-Driven Decision Making and Strong Opinions Loosely Held

02:49

Intro

4min

From Growth to Innovation: Spotify's Journey

24min

Evolving Product Development at Spotify

14min

The Strategic Advantages of Business Extremes

2min

Redesigning Spotify: Balancing Feedback and Innovation

25min

The Power of Walk and Talk: Enhancing Creativity Through Movement

2min

Navigating Short-Term Pleasures and Long-Term Regrets

2min

Cultural Reflections and Podcasting Challenges

13min

Brought to you by Microsoft Clarity—See how people actually use your product | Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments | Eco—Your most rewarding app

—

Gustav Söderström is the Co-President and Chief Product and Technology Officer at Spotify. He is responsible for Spotify’s global product and technology strategy, overseeing the product, design, data, and engineering teams. Prior to Spotify, he founded 13th Lab, a startup that was later acquired by Facebook’s Oculus. He also served as the Director of Product and Business Development for Yahoo Mobile and founded Kenet Works, a company focused on community software for mobile phones, which was acquired by Yahoo in 2006. In today’s episode, we discuss:

• How Spotify structures product teams to promote freedom of thought

• Lessons on thinking long-term and navigating negative feedback

• Why Gustav started a podcast and what he’s learned

• How AI has impacted the work PMs, engineers, and designers do within Spotify

• AI-generated music and its impact on artists

• What’s next for Spotify and Spotify Podcasting

—

Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/lessons-from-scaling-spotify-the

—

Where to find Gustav Söderström:

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/GustavS

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gustavsoderstrom/

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Gustav’s background

(04:08) The various roles Gustav has occupied at Spotify

(06:54) Why Gustav launched a podcast and what he learned

(12:37) How PMs and product teams should think about AI

(21:23) AI-generated music

(26:19) Will AI continue to be a magic trick for products?

(28:27) How Spotify organizes product teams

(34:33) How Spotify operationalized autonomy

(35:45) Why Spotify uses a centralized model for structuring their organization

(43:34) The big bet Spotify took with redesigning its interface, and what they learned

(57:26) How they tested their hypothesis before launch

(1:02:35) Gustav’s “10% planning time” methodology

(1:03:53) How to bring energy and clarity to your work

(1:08:07) How to systematize deep thinking

(1:10:29) The peeing-in-your-pants analogy

(1:11:38) Thoughts on how the Swedish culture is portrayed in Succession

(1:13:30) What’s next for Spotify and Spotify Podcasting

(1:15:52) Lightning round

—

Referenced:

• Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/

• Daniel Ek: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-ek-1b52093a/

• Spotify: A Product Story podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/3L9tzrt0CthF6hNkxYIeSB

• Spotify’s AI DJ: https://newsroom.spotify.com/2023-02-22/spotify-debuts-a-new-ai-dj-right-in-your-pocket/

• Avicii: https://avicii.com/

• DALL-E: https://openai.com/product/dall-e-2

• Stable Diffusion: https://stability.ai/

• Midjourney: https://www.midjourney.com/

• Brian Chesky: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianchesky/

• Succession on HBO: https://www.hbo.com/succession

• Fjällräven: https://www.fjallraven.com/us/en-us

• 7 Powers: The Foundations of Business Strategy: https://www.amazon.com/7-Powers-Foundations-Business-Strategy

• Charlie Munger: The Complete Investor: https://www.amazon.com/Charlie-Munger-Tren-Griffin

• The Mystery of the Aleph: Mathematics, the Kabbalah, and the Search for Infinity: https://www.amazon.com/Mystery-Aleph-Mathematics-Kabbalah-Infinity

• Something Deeply Hidden: Quantum Worlds and the Emergence of Spacetime: https://www.amazon.com/Something-Deeply-Hidden

• Helgoland: Making Sense of the Quantum Revolution: https://www.amazon.com/Helgoland-Making-Sense-Quantum-Revolution

• The Beginning of Infinity: Explanations That Transform the World: https://www.amazon.com/The-Beginning-of-Infinity

• The Fabric of Reality: The Science of Parallel Universes—and Its Implications: https://www.amazon.com/The-Fabric-of-Reality

• The Case Against Reality: Why Evolution Hid the Truth from Our Eyes: https://www.amazon.com/The-Case-Against-Reality-audiobook/dp/B07VL5TCVF/ref=sr_1_1

• Gödel’s Proof: https://www.amazon.com/G%C3%B6dels-Proof-Ernest-Nagel

• The Demon in the Machine: How Hidden Webs of Information Are Solving the Mystery of Life: https://www.amazon.com/Demon-Machine-Information-Solving-Mystery

• Halt and Catch Fire on Apple TV: https://tv.apple.com/us/show/halt-and-catch-fire/umc.cmc.5s15r46uj0wx044tipm2zoh88

• Duolingo: https://www.duolingo.com/

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

—

Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

Remember Everything You Learn from Podcasts

Save insights instantly, chat with episodes, and build lasting knowledge - all powered by AI.

Lenny's Podcast: Product | Growth | Career

Lessons from scaling Spotify: The science of product, taking risky bets, and how AI is already impacting the future of music | Gustav Söderström (Co-President, CPO, and CTO at Spotify)

Episode guests

Podcast summary created with Snipd AI

Quick takeaways

Deep dives

Shifting from Curation to Recommendation to Generation

The Role of AI in Spotify's Product Development

The Evolution of Spotify's Team Structure

Lessons from Taking Big Bets and Redesigning the Spotify Feed

Importance of Trying New Things and Adapting

The Process of Making Changes and Adapting

What’s Next For Spotify in Podcasting?

Autonomy and Decision-Making in Organizational Structure

Walking and talking.

The Importance of Data-Driven Decision Making and Strong Opinions Loosely Held

Remember Everything You Learn from Podcasts