[PREVIEW] Not Wearing Pants Yet

Virginia

You’re listening to Burnt Toast! This is the podcast about diet culture, anti-fat bias, parenting, and health. I’m Virginia Sole Smith. I also write the Burnt Toast newsletter.

Corinne

And I’m Corinne Fay. I work on Burnt Toast and run @selltradeplus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus sized clothing.

Virginia

It is time for your September1 Indulgence Gospel!

We are going to answer your questions like we do every month. We have so many good ones. We’re going to get into fall shoes. I have a lot of thoughts about how do you give compliments and just a lot of good fall chat.

Corinne

This is also a paywalled episode. That means to hear the whole thing you’ll need to be a paid Burnt Toast subscriber. It’s just $5 a month or $50 for the year.

Virginia

Or, if you want even more: You can now join Extra Butter at $10 a month where you get everything the regular paid folks get plus monthly live Ask Me Anything chat swith me and even more Indulgence Gospel.

Corinne

Who doesn’t want extra butter?

Virginia

I literally just ate lunch, and I put extra butter on my toast.

Corinne

Sounds really good. 

Virginia

Okay, I have an update for you, Corinne. Are you ready?

Corinne

I’m so excited.

Virginia

I have something to show you, which is I finally got around to ordering—

Corinne

Oh my gosh, it’s beautiful! 

Virginia

Your Indulgence Gospel t-shirt! Which I will put in the mail to you this week.

Corinne

Oh my God! It’s so cute. 

Virginia

Isn’t it so cute? For listeners who don’t know, some very devoted fans of the show—friends of the show—designed their own Priestess of the Indulgence Gospel t-shirts. It’s not official Burnt Toast merch, but they are lovely and the proceeds are being donated to the National Network of Abortion Funds. I also ordered them for my kids, who were confused. My 10 year old doesn’t like baggy clothes—it’s like a whole thing—but she’s wearing it as a pajama shirt. It’s so cute.

Corinne’s really cute. They have a little crown made out of pizza on them.

Virginia

A pizza crown. The fabric is really nice. We’ll report back on the sizing—I felt like my sizing was pretty good, so fingers crossed.

Corinne

That is a very exciting update.

Virginia

What else is new with you?

Corinne

Well, fall here is really nice and also always feels too short. It’s like four weeks where like the temperature is actually, nice during the day and then it gets really cold at night. The green chile is roasting and there’s a Hot Air Balloon Fiesta in October.

Virginia

I guess I kind of thought New Mexico didn’t have fall at all! That’s lovely.

Corinne

It is lovely. It’s not New England fall, but yeah.

Virginia

I like a place that’s ready to claim its own type of fall.

Corinne

Yeah, you might prefer green chile to pumpkin spice.

Virginia

I mean, I don’t hate pumpkin spice but does it need to be in everything? One of the questions for this week that I didn’t bother to put on the list was Pumpkin Spice related and I was like, I don’t feel qualified to speak to that. But there was a really fun episode of It’s Been A Minute where she talked about the history of pumpkin spice. So if you are a pumpkin spice lover, or like me, you have complicated feelings about it, I recommend that episode.

Corinne

I’ll check that out.

Virginia

What else is new with me? I think I’m done with Twitter.

Corinne

You know, I think Twitter is over. 

Virginia

I think it’s done, right? I think we can be done.

Corinne

I was looking on Twitter for something we’re going to talk about later. And first of all, I had so much trouble finding it on my phone because it’s not called Twitter anymore. Who wants to be like pulling up a website called x.com? It sounds sounds like you’re searching for—

Virginia

For porn.

Corinne

Like a porn.

Virginia

I just broke 10,000 followers on there this year, which feels like a milestone. But with troll management, I’ve been feeling like I really need to streamline all these platforms because I cannot be worrying about trolls in all the places. So I changed my account to protected—I couldn’t quite bring myself to delete. I closed DMs, and I tweeted something that was like, “Okay, I can’t quite press delete, but I’m not looking at this anymore.” It’s been great. I haven’t even thought about it. And you may be upset about this, but I’m considering also whether I’m going to be done with TikTok soon. I don’t know.

Corinne

I’m in favor of people getting rid of whatever social media they don’t want to be on. I was never a big Twitter poster, but I kind of miss the commentary. It was so funny. It was really so smart sometimes, and now it’s just bad to use. I don’t know where that commentary has really gone, either. Substack, I guess.

And also like Threads had a meteoric rise. And is anyone still using Threads? 

Virginia

I don’t know. I am on all of those places. I am doing nothing with any of them right now. I have this compulsive need to be there, but I similarly just turned off comments on my TikTok, because that was getting really spammy. I was getting a bunch of trolls there. So now I’m just on Instagram and maybe that’s good. I’m curious to hear what people’s thoughts are about this. I was thinking maybe we do a Friday thread on this soon.

Corinne

Yeah, that’s a good idea. What’s everyone doing about social media? 

[Post-recording note from Virginia: We’re doing this thread on Friday! Hold your comments on this till then, so we can have a good deep dive!]

Virginia

We’re in a weird moment with it. If I’m thinking of it from a business perspective, honestly, none of it serves me! Twitter stopped being remotely a driver to Substack because there’s bad blood between the companies. Even Instagram and Tiktok are not big drivers of traffic to Substack. So if I’m just using it for fun? I don’t know. I like puzzles more, I think.

Corinne

Yep.

Virginia

Alright, the last thing I wanted to talk about before we dive into questions is Philly Fat Con. Corinne, do you want to tell people what Philly Fat Con is?

Corinne

Yes. So this year is the first Philly Fat Con. In the past, there’s been a really amazing, plus size clothing swap in Philly. This year Burnt Toast is an official sponsor of Philly Fat Con. It’s a two day convention curated for fat people, by fat people, taking place October 28 and 29th in Philly. There’s a really amazing list of speakers, panels, fashion, healing from fatphobia, fat influencers, yoga, dance, meditation, and twerking.

Virginia

Corinne and I can’t be there this year, but we were really excited to have Burnt Toast be a sponsor and there will be a Burnt Toast subscription discount coupon available for folks who attend. We’re very excited to be supporting and hopefully in future years we can be an in-real-life a part of it. I

Corinne

A bunch of people who are active in the @selltradeplus community go. And the clothing swap seems really cool. They have a mending table!

Virginia

I love that. It seems like such a great resource. So if you are in Philly, or anywhere Philly-adjacent, October 28 and 29th. You should check it out!

Alright, should we do some questions?

Corinne

Hi Virginia and Corinne,

How do we all feel about the standard practice of including the number of servings on a recipe, not to be confused with the serving sizes as determined by the FDA. I’m talking about when a pasta recipe calls for 12 ounces of pasta—three quarters of a box—and says it’s for four servings. My partner and I inevitably always end up eating the four servings of pasta between the two of us and then feel weirdly guilty for no reason. I’m a recipe developer by trade, so I obviously have an agenda here. But my question is, are serving information on recipes inherently anti-fat? Is there a better way to do this while still informing people on what quantity of food they’re preparing? 

Virginia

The first thing I’m going to say on this is I have never in my life cooked three quarters of a box when I could cook a whole box of pasta. What are you doing leaving me with a quarter of a box of pasta to deal with? That’s just irritating.

Corinne

I definitely have quarter boxes of pasta in my pantry from this very fucking thing.

Virginia

It’s so rude.

Okay, free list! This is where we leave you. Subscribe to get all of our thoughts on the tyranny of portion control, fall shoes and is my house really as clean as it looks on Instagram?

Virginia

I think this is some real bullshit. 12 ounces of pasta as four servings is a scam perpetrated on our country, is how I feel.

Corinne

This is one of those things where I would have thought that there was some kind of rule about this—like that a serving of pasta is however many ounces—that recipe developers were following. But I feel like this question makes it clear that there isn’t!

Virginia

 No.

Corinne

I do feel like the New York Times is maybe the worst perpetrator of this.

Virginia

Oh, well that makes sense because they are very diet-y.

I was raised in a house that believed if there is garlic in the recipe, it is a minimum of three cloves of garlic. Don’t give me this “one clove of garlic, finely minced.” It is three to five cloves of garlic. If there are chocolate chips in a recipe, we are not measuring the chocolate chips, we are just dumping in as many chocolate chips as we see fit.

Corinne

This is… I can’t.

Virginia

I do not subscribe to “quantities.”

Corinne

You’re like those New York Times recipe commenters that are like “I didn’t have flour, so I used baking soda and it didn’t work!”

Virginia

No, I use the ingredients! I just cannot be hemmed in by the rigidity of the expectations that I’m going to measure all this shit. Like, I have to get dinner on the table!

Corinne

Okay, well, I try to follow recipes. But I’m one person who lives alone and I feel like I would be eating this recipe as two servings. 

Virginia

Yes, like, this is dinner tonight, and lunch tomorrow. Perfect. I do think there is a lot of diet culture behind this. I mean, I think it’s also like they’re trying to be helpful. Like, you want to have a sense of how many people this recipe can feed. But how can the recipe developer ever know that? 

Corinne

Right. Or it’s four servings of pasta as like a side pasta salad or something, versus the main thing you’re eating? 

Virginia

It makes no sense.

Corinne

I do kind of wonder if it’s an older generation thing, too. When I saw this I was like, “oh, yeah, that would be four servings for my mom.” No offense, mom. 

Virginia

We love you, Corinne’s mom. 

Corinne

You don’t eat very much.

Virginia

I mean, we will link to the thing about do older people eat less. We got my mom to weigh in on that one. 

Corinne

But she kind of said no, didn’t she?

Virginia

Well she was like, “I feel like maybe I do eat less but not as not as little as my diet-y friends.” Because a lot of Boomer women are dieting.

There could also be some cost element, like depending if it’s a very budget friendly sort of recipe site. I think sometimes they’re trying to convince you you can make ingredients go longer. Although, this cannot apply to the pasta thing. Because if I’ve already bought the damn box of pasta, I cannot now make another recipe out of that quarter box of pasta! So irritating.

Corinne

Is it maybe that high end pasta comes in a smaller box or something?

Virginia

I think it’s usually 16 ounces even for the fancy stuff. I buy bougie pasta because— 

Corinne

Because why not? 

Virginia

And you get the same standard amount as you get in your box of Barilla or whatever. 

Alright. Next question. 

What are your favorite ice cream flavors? Both little shop and grocery store. I will keep asking! 

This came in over Instagram from a follower who I believe has submitted this a few months in a row and we maybe forgot it. And I’m sorry. We just get a lot of questions.

Corinne

It is a good topic. We do like talking about ice cream. 

Virginia

And with my pro-summer agenda I’m keeping it in, because we will continue to eat ice cream throughout the fall. The correct answer here is not pumpkin spice ice cream, just so we’re clear.

Corinne

I have a lot of grocery store favorites. Depending on what kind of grocery store you’re going to. I really like Ben & Jerry’s Cherry Garcia, and it’s available at almost every grocery store. If we’re if we’re at the fancy grocery store, by which I mean Whole Foods, I really like Jeni’s Brown Butter Almond Brittle flavor. It’s expensive, but it’s worth it. And then I also really like Strauss ice cream, which I don’t think you have on the east coast but it’s really good. Just like vanilla and chocolate. They have a maple one that’s really good. Delicious.

Virginia

People will not be surprised to hear that I am not very adventurous with ice cream flavors. I like my chocolate, my chocolate brownie, my mint chocolate chip. Maybe that’s like my getting wild flavor. Maybe something with chocolate peanut butter. 

Corinne

Oh, I like chocolate peanut butter, too.

Virginia

If it’s not a chocolate base I don’t really know what to do with it.

Corinne

Do you have a brand loyalty?

Virginia

Definitely Ben and Jerry’s Chocolate Fudge Brownie is the go-to, will never disappoint you, available everywhere. There is a great local ice cream brand that’s in our fancy grocery store called Adirondack Creamery and their mint chip is called “White Face Mint” because there’s a White Face Mountain in the Adirondacks. I like buying it for the awkwardness of that name. Like, how did they not focus group white face ice cream?

Corinne

It is a little bit odd.

Virginia

Then for local ice cream shops, Jane’s Ice Cream is a good local brand of ice cream you can get it at various ice cream shops. They do a chocolate peanut butter brownie that is superb, really bringing it all together.

Corinne

I think I’ve mentioned before that we have a really good local soft serve place. They just have vanilla and chocolate, but they do have really exciting toppings. 

Virginia

Well, that can be really important. 

Corinne

They have a sundae that has olive oil and hazelnuts on it! A very adult, savory type of sundae.

Virginia

My kids would riot, but it sounds great.

My 10 year old’s favorite flavor is limoncello, which is an extremely annoying flavor to have be your favorite flavor, because it is not available in a lot of places. 

Corinne

Is that like nondairy or?

Virginia

No, it’s an ice cream. There are three ice cream shops in our town, only one of them serves limoncello. It is the ice cream shop with no shade. So when it is August and you want ice cream, it is like eating it on the surface of the sun in their parking lot. I’m always like, can we please go to the shady ice cream? I really want to say to the shady ice cream place people, like, could you just get limoncello please?

Corinne

Yeah, just buy them a pint and ask them to keep it in the back.

Virginia

Please, just for us. 

Corinne

I mean, I love a child with strong opinions about ice cream flavors!

Virginia

So strong. It’s really great for me. I love it, too. Love how empowered she is. It’s so super. 

Corinne 

Okay, let me ask you another question. This person randomly was wondering,

Do you still eat car sushi or are those days over?

Virginia

I do still eat car sushi. 

I should probably explain what car sushi is because not everyone will know this. But during the pandemic, I wrote an essay for the New York Times about how my survival strategy, back in the days when we were all trapped with our families was that I would do the grocery shopping and I would get grocery store sushi. Then I would sit in the parking lot of the grocery store and eat my sushi and listen to a podcast. It was the perfect me time. And I was grocery shopping, I wasn’t abandoning my family. But I was having time to myself, which I desperately needed. It was amazing. 

And yeah, I still do it. It is less of a necessity. We leave our homes now. But I definitely still do it and I have even upgraded it to occasionally there’s a good local sushi restaurant I like and sometimes I like to take myself out for sushi and sit in the restaurant by myself. 

Corinne

I was recently talking to some friends about how grocery store sushi can be such a lifesaver meal.

Virginia

It’s so good. Ours is honestly better than some of the sushi restaurants around us. I don’t know what sorcery that man is doing in there. I love him so much. I’ve never been bold enough to introduce myself to the sushi guy even though he totally knows me because I get it so often. It’s like past the point where we should have told each other our names. You know how that happens sometimes? I’m in a five year relationship with my sushi guy.

Corinne

Yeah, he’s a close personal friend whose name you don’t know. 

Virginia

I love him so much. It’s just perfect you’ve just been stuck in the store and you need a snack. You’re running a bunch of errands you don’t have time to stop for lunch. 

Okay, next question.

Any favorite meal train meals? Bonus for vegetarian options if you have any?

Corinne

I feel that the correct thing to bring for a meal train is lasagna.

Virginia

See, I feel that the worst thing to bring for a meal train is lasagna. 

Corinne

Oh shit! Oh God. Goodbye. This is our breakup.

Virginia

Well, I will tell you why it is. When I was the recipient of many meal trains, when I had a critically ill child and was staying in the hospital a lot, guess what everybody brought?

Corinne

Lasagna. Shit. Okay.

Virginia

It is the thing everybody is going to bring, so. 

Corinne

Okay. Well, I will say I think I feel that way because that’s what my mom always makes. But I also feel like I would probably make a more exciting lasagna, I’d probably do like butternut squash or spinach or something. 

Virginia

That, I would have completely appreciated. Lasagna is amazing when it’s amazing. But it also feels like you’re eating baby food when you’ve eaten it for so many days. 

Corinne

When you’re reheating it, yeah. 

Virginia

I would get to this point where I was like, I can’t eat anymore fucking lasagna. This is not an anti-pasta statement, to be clear. 

Corinne

No, that is really fair. 

Virginia

Pasta is central to my life. So what I do—this doesn’t work for absolutely every meal train, but for most of the time I think this is good. Like, it wouldn’t work for someone who’s like in the hospital and you need to bring them a meal they can eat completely. I also have thoughts on that. But if it’s like a new baby and they are home, or someone’s going through a hard time and you want to drop off a meal, I will make sauce and freeze it and bring it with a bag of the bougie pasta. 

Corinne

Oh, that’s smart. 

Virginia

Like, I’ll make like a really good Bolognese or a sausage ragu or something. And then that way, if they want to have it for dinner that night, they can just leave it out to thaw and all they have to do is boil water for the pasta. Because the other thing about meal trains is sometimes too much arrives at once and then you haven’t finished last night’s thing. So I also like bringing them something that if they don’t want it, they can just stash very easily. The pasta can go in the pantry. Sauce goes in the freezer. Boom. 

Corinne

That’s smart. That’s really smart. Well, I will also suggest as an alternative, enchiladas. 

Virginia

I mean, also a baby food potential.

Corinne

I think anything you’re reheating over and over.

Virginia

It can become a problem. But you can obviously do a vegetarian version of all of these. 

Also, not vegetarian, but if you are someone who knows how to roast a good chicken, that’s a nice one to bring. You could bring a roast chicken and a bagged salad. Maybe a nice loaf of bread. So they would have all the components. I just always really appreciated it when it was a meal that I could chew and had texture.

Corinne

Oh God. I mean, that’s a good tip.

Virginia

But no, I mean, if you make an amazing lasagna, bring your amazing lasagna. I definitely had one friend who made an amazing lasagna and I was super happy to eat it. And then some people bring lasagna somewhere and I’m not gonna name names.

Corinne

You know who you are.

Virginia

You brought me a subpar lasagna in my time of need.

Corinne

“If you brought me a mushy lasagna, I remember you.”

Virginia

That’s a good question though.

Corinne

All right. This is a good question. 

Confession: I am a complimenter! I am a very extroverted person that appreciates fashion and personal style and I love to compliment people when out and about. I compliment the clothing, glasses, accessories, and overall look of all ages, sizes, genders, etc. I think this generally brightens someone’s day a bit. However, I want to make sure that I’m doing so in a way that is inclusive, fat positive, and generally kind. I never say that pieces of clothing are flattering because I think that is just code for “makes you look thinner.” I would appreciate any tips you have. Should I just stop and leave stylish strangers in peace?

Virginia

I say no. Bring on the stylish compliments. I love a style based compliment. It feels like the perfect workaround to get away from body based compliments.

Corinne

I totally agree. I also recently heard someone say, instead of being like, “I like your shirt,” to be like, “you make that shirt look really good,” or something. 

Virginia

Oh, that’s lovely. 

Corinne

So it’s more like complimenting the person rather than what they are wearing.

Virginia

“You are wearing the heck out of that shirt.” I mean, I will totally ask, “Where are your shoes from?” We can unpack the capitalism of this and the gender conditioning of this, but it is a skill, knowing how to find cute things. And I appreciate when someone is recognizing my time and effort, as well as how I’m wearing the thing.

Corinne

Yeah, I do think it brightens someone’s day. 

Virginia

Absolutely. 

Corinne

You could also say like “you have a nice smile” or something. I don’t know. Are we crossing the line into flirting?

Virginia

That feels like you’re hitting on me.

Corinne

I’m sorry. Never mind. 

Virginia

I feel like depending who said that, it could be fine, but it could get weird. And also, do I have to compliment back and be like, “you have pretty eyes”? I don’t know. 

This person is totally right, skip “flattering.” Definitely skip anything where you’re commenting on the person’s shape. Like, I wouldn’t be like, “that makes your stomach like very flat” or something. I don’t know, probably somebody has given that compliment, but I’ve never experienced it. But sometimes people might say something like, “oh it makes your legs look so good.” Like, I wouldn’t necessarily say “this makes this part of your body look good.” That feels like you’re getting more into objectifying and diet culture commentary. But if it’s like, “I love the pattern of that skirt,” or “that dress is so pretty,” or whatever, I feel like that is all good. And it’s a nice icebreaker. I mean, people comment on my glasses a lot. And I’m always like, this is helping us. I feel like I’m providing this service.

Corinne

“Here, talk about this.”

Virginia

Talk about the glasses and then we can get on to other stuff.

Corinne

That’s smart. 

Virginia

Alright. We got multiple questions about pants, specifically favorite work pants for apple shapes. Also, just pant recommendations in general. And a couple of people also mentioned “help it’s fall, I have to wear pants again.”

Corinne

Well as discussed, I’m not wearing pants yet. Are you? 

Virginia

I am currently wearing a jumpsuit. Does that count? I’m wearing my Universal Standard jumpsuit. It has a jogger style pant and it’s making me really want some joggers for fall. But it is difficult to find joggers for apple shapes is what I will say. 

Corinne

Interesting. 

Virginia

Because if it fits my waist, the legs end up more of like a wide leg and not the taper. This is a rare unicorn that does that. Which, I’m not against a wide leg but I’m just saying if I’m looking for a jogger cuff I don’t want it to be wide leg, that’s not the vibe.

Corinne

My perpetual Burnt Toast pant recommendation is the Eileen Fisher lantern pants. I feel like it’s not a jogger but similarly it goes in at the bottom.

Virginia

This might be the year I do the lantern pants. 

Corinne

I also like these pants called Monday pants from Free Label but they don’t have them on the site right now, so I feel kind of bad recommending them.

Virginia

Well, by the time this airs, who knows. 

Corinne

You have the free label bras or no?

Virginia

I have a free label bra. I tried their joggers and they were cut for an hourglass, not for me. They were too small on the waist. Okay, but now I’m looking at their wide legs. Their Loretta pant is really cute if you want a wide leg option.

Corinne

They do different fabrications and I like the bamboo fabric because it’s really soft. I think the Monday pant is straight or tapered. 

Virginia

Oh, I did the Sunday crop. That’s the one I had a not great experience with. 

Corinne

And now they have these like Sophie slacks which also look like they would be good.

Virginia

Yep. I was just eyeing the Sophie slacks.

Corinne

Yeah. I find the sizing on them like very flexible, I can wear two different sizes because it stretches.

Virginia

I may have to try there Sophie slacks. They do have limited return windows because they’re a small company. No shade to them. That is how small companies do it. But if you order, you need to be on it with your returns if you need returns.

Corinne

Yeah, and they are Canadian.

Virginia

But that looks really cool. My other go-to is the Universal Standard—every year we debate how to pronounce “ponte.”

Corinne

I say pont-tay pant. Ponte? I don’t know what I say.

Virginia

You sound like you’re saying panties, but with a weird accent.

Corinne

Ugh I hate it. I tried those and I felt they didn’t work for me. So your mileage may vary.

Virginia

I mean, this is the story of pants.

Corinne

I know. And I feel like we both would say that we’re apple shapes! 

Virginia

Yes, we would. 

Corinne

Anyways, I am a non-ponte apple. Maybe I’m not an apple. I don’t know.

Virginia

What fruit am I?

Corinne

I feel like what I actually always want to say is like, “I’m a snowman.” But I don’t know what shape that is. Maybe it’s like a fat hourglass? Or something? I don’t know. 

Virginia

I’m picturing a snowman.

Corinne

Yeah, I don’t know. It’s like stacked apples. I don’t know. 

Virginia

I am multiple apples.

Corinne

I’m a bucket of apples.

Virginia

I am the more classic apple on toothpicks situation, which is a challenge. I mean, it’s all a challenge, clothes are not cut for our bodies. I don’t feel we’ve been very helpful here. I was just bracing myself to think about jeans and I don’t think I’m ready.

Corinne

I haven’t worn any of my pants since May. So I haven’t tried them on and been like, these are still working these aren’t, so I feel bad recommending stuff that I haven’t worn in like six months. 

Virginia

Well it’s also the thing where I have the one pair of Gap jeans that I like and I wear either the largest or the second largest size because Gap is not size inclusive. So I always feel bad talking about this, but they fit and nothing else does. So I wear them. And then they went on sale so I ordered a second pair in the exact same wash in the exact same size…

Corinne

Oh no. I know where this is going. 

Virginia

I put them on and they felt tight. And I was like, I don’t get it. I give up.

Corinne

I have a pair from Universal Standard—and by a pair what I mean is I actually have four pairs of the same piece. I’m just like, I must have more of these. And I have them in two different sizes and I comfortably can wear both.

But yeah, I also had recently heard from people on selltradeplus that Universal Standard changed their jean fabric and it’s not good anymore. So I’m scared to find out about that.

Virginia

It’s so hard and exhausting. I feel like we haven’t really helpfully answered this question. But I think we’ve offered a lot of solidarity. It’s hard. I’m sorry.

Corinne

I feel like, check out Target.

Virginia

You know Target is the stealth player of all of this. And even if it doesn’t work, it’s easy returns and you haven’t spent a lot of money. It just won’t last very long as the thing. You’re not getting an investment piece. But maybe there’s no such thing as an investment piece. Maybe we need to dismantle the myth of the investment piece. 

Corinne

Yeah, I think that might be a thing.

Virginia

Okay, this is very fun question. Fall shoes. And this person wrote,

Why do I only own sandals and boots, and nothing in between?

And I felt really seen by that statement, actually.

Corinne

This is maybe a regionally specific question. I just wear sneakers all the time.

Virginia

I was about to say, I think the solution is sneakers. I think this person is missing the cute sneaker category.

Corinne

Yeah. A pair of white sneakers.

Virginia

Yep. Do you have any are excited about right now?

Corinne

I think both of us wear Vejas, right? I also think that Reebok Club C 85’s are cute. They’re cheaper but they look really similar.

Virginia

Oh, they’re totally cute. 

Corinne

Do clogs count? I feel like cogs could be a fall shoe.

Virginia

Clogs are absolutely! Just know that depending on the weather, unless you live in California, you have about six weeks in the spring and about six weeks in the fall. If it gets rainy, less than that, in which clogs are practical. And I will say that fashion clogs are not a super walkable shoe.

I am thinking about a new pair of Boston clogs for this fall that I would wear out of the house. What are your feelings about Boston clogs or Birkenstock clogs?

Corinne

I mean, very on trend. I don’t know if I’ve ever owned a pair.

Virginia

I don’t want that taupe color that all the influencers have. I don’t want to be that obvious.

Corinne

What color would you get?

Virginia

There’s a bright blue pair. Do you see the ultra blue? That blue is really pretty. 

Corinne

I also kind of like the bright green. Might be harder, I don’t know. There’s a nice maroon. There’s an off white that I also like—antique white. 

Virginia

Well, I mean, that would last three minutes. Good luck. 

Corinne

Okay, fair. That might be more of an Albuquerque color. 

Virginia

Don’t you you have dust?

Corinne

Yeah, but I feel like it’s that color.

Virginia

Off white suede just feels like it’s gonna be trashed so fast.

Corinne

Okay, I take it back. You know what else could be a good fall shoe is Sabahs.

Virginia

Ooh, yes. They’re like, a leather cross between a loafer and a moccasin sort of vibe. Oh and they do a backless one that’s sort of like a flat clog.

Corinne

Yeah, like a slide. I feel like they’re good because they could be really casual or like a little more dressy.

Virginia

Oh, this is a new obsession for me. They come in hot pink! Okay.

Corinne

Yeah, they have really cute colors.

Virginia

They are pricey. Don’t get mad at us that we said something expensive. Always go back to Target. The Target shoes are often excellent knockoffs of Madewell.

Corinne

Yeah, you could definitely find a cheaper version of these. 

Virginia

But these ones are beautifully made and the colors are amazing. What I will say is the challenge with the cute sneaker, the clog, or the slide is what do you do when it is cold enough that you want to wear socks? Is that when you move to boot territory and never look back?

Corinne

It’s a perpetual question. I also feel like another shoe I’ve been seeing a lot of, which I am kind of interested in, is the chunky loafer.

Virginia

The chunky loafer has caught my eye as well.

Corinne

I feel like you can wear socks with those. 

Virginia

Oh, interesting. Right? I guess you could. It’s a little more rugged.

Corinne

Little white socks or cute socks? I don’t know. 

Virginia

I also feel like you could wear socks with the Boston Birkenstock clog.

Corinne

Definitely. You could even wear chunky socks.

Virginia

Like a chunky knit sock. Well, I think this was a good shoe brainstorming session.

Corinne

Okay.

Virginia, I would love to hear more about your puzzle setup.

Virginia

I’m so glad someone asked. My puzzle setup is very close to my heart. Very important to my self care. I’ve tried a couple different permutations around my house but where I’m mostly puzzling these days, is in the evenings while watching TV with my 10 year old. I was doing it at the coffee table and my 42-year-old back cannot handle that. It is not going to work. So over the summer I got a pretty cute chair, on sale from Anthropologie. I don’t know how size inclusive it is, but it’s better than my dining room chairs for sure. It’s basically like an arm chair, but more upright. Because I needed a chair that could sit at a little table.

So I got a little table from Target,2 also on sale, that is like a 24 inch round bistro table. You could use like any dining chair, but I wanted something kind of comfy too because I don’t wanna be sitting on a hard dining room chair to do puzzles. So I’ve got my chair and my little table and then I’ve got my puzzle table, which sits on top and is a lazy Susan with a rotating puzzle board that you can also angle up.

Corinne

Oh my God. The dream!

Virginia

Oh, absolutely. 

Corinne

I love that you can angle it up. So smart.

Virginia

If you’re a hardcore puzzler, you need this. Your back needs this kind of setup.

Corinne

Okay, the next question is,

how do you keep your house so clean with two kids?

Virginia

The headline answer of this is you only ever see like, two feet of my house on Instagram! If you see an area that looks clean, do not assume the rest of my house is clean. Often it is not at all and I have shoved things out of sight. That is the miracle of Instagram. I will also say I am privileged to have a cleaning person. And I am privileged to be an obsessive tidier. So that combination. I am privileged that tidying relieves my stress. And when I’m very stressed out, my house tends to get very tidy, which I know it’s not how everybody goes. But that is where I go. 

And this has been a stressful season in my life! So my house is looking pretty good. I do a lot of stress organizing and tidying. 

Then the last thing I’ll say is I was reading

lyz

’s incredible new book, This American Ex-Wife: How I Ended My Marriage and Started My Life, and came across some really interesting research she reported on, which is that a husband adds on average seven hours of domestic labor to wives, and that many women notice when their husbands move out their houses get cleaner. We don’t need to unpack that extensively. But let me just say that I felt seen by that page of Lyz’s book.

Corinne

Wow, I mean. Perks! 

Virginia

It turns out, if you cut down on the amount of people dropping stuff everywhere then there’s less to pick up! So there we are. 

Corinne

Consider a cleaning lady instead of a husband.

Virginia

She is the most important person in my life. I love you, Dawn. And I promise, there is at least always one room that looks like an absolute dumpster fire.

Corinne

Nobody is asking me this question.

Virginia

You don’t show your house that much, though!

Corinne

Yeah, there’s a reason!

Virginia

I like the next question quite a lot. This the last question we’ll end on today, which is

How do you like to celebrate shifting into fall while resisting manic, back-to-the-grind urgency?

I feel like this is all my anxiety right here in this question. This is why September is a hard month for me.

Corinne

Yeah. It’s a very interesting question. I feel like every season kind of has its own manic urgency. Like, I feel like there’s a lot of manic urgency to summer, too, sometimes.

Virginia

Oh, because it feels like you have to do all the cool summer things?

Corinne

It feels so short. I saw a meme and that was just like the whole year leading up to August. Everyone is like, blah, blah, blah every month, and you’re just looking forward to August. And then August is over in a flash. 

Virginia

Well, I think you’re right, that urgency is always there. So it’s more a question of can we identify the real sources of this that is not the calendar. Obviously the calendar is just a construction we’re using, and the urgency is really hustle culture and perfectionism. As discussed, I’m a massive work in progress there.

Corinne

Yeah. Maybe you also feel more of this with actually having people in your house going back to school.

Virginia

Yeah, that’s true. Our lives are more organized around the idea that September is the back to school time. One small thing I have done, more for my kids than for me, but I think it mentally helps me, is the first few years I had kids in school, I sort of automatically put a lot of thought into what our first day of school outfits were going to be. This is because for me, as a kid, I always put massive amounts of thought into my first day of school outfits. This was a real project of mine. And this year and last year, I did not. I haven’t done back-to-school clothes shopping yet because the weather hasn’t changed. They don’t need new stuff yet, you know what I mean?

And I had this moment of like, “Oh, God, they don’t have new clothes to wear for the first day of school. Am I a bad mom?” And then I’m like, obviously not. Obviously, that doesn’t matter. When I’ve said to my kids, a day or two before, “do you want to pick out a first day of school outfit? Or do you not care?” I’ve kind of left it up to them and they both get into it. But then they pick their own outfits, which are of course amazing. It’s just them putting together whatever from their summer stuff. And it’s like a whole job I’ve taken off my plate, right? Because I’m not responsible for acquiring cool new back to school outfits. It’s also great for their body autonomy, because it’s not me being like, “you need to wear this for the first day of school so you can look cute for the first day of school,” which like, like, let’s just unpack how fucked up that idea is! You’re going to school to learn. 

Corinne

Yeah, so true.

Virginia

Why is there a message that you should have a cute outfit to learn in?

Corinne

Yeah.

Virginia

So that’s one option. I similarly have never made a big deal about Picture Day for my kids. I let them wear whatever the hell they want for picture day. I don’t even care if they brush their hair or not. We have our normal, please brush your hair to be a person in the world standard, but I’m not going out of my way and I think I like our pictures much more because they really reflect like the hot mess my children always are. 

Corinne

Man, I’m so glad we don’t have to do picture day as adults. 

Virginia

Oh god. Such a weird ritual. At least if I’m being manic, I’m being manic about things that matter slightly more to some extent. 

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Butter

Corinne

Should we do Butter?

Virginia

Let’s do Butter. What do you have for Butter?

Corinne

Okay, well, I have an expensive recommendation that everyone is going to be mad about.

Virginia

It’s the theme of this episode. We did expensive recommendations this time. It’s been a hard year. We deserve to treat ourselves. Here we are.

Corinne

Okay, I want to recommend this hat. It’s a baseball hat. The brand is called Blluemade. But it’s just a fancy linen baseball cap, but— 

Virginia

You were not kidding about expensive.

Corinne

I’m sorry. It’s $100! However, I will say something about it that is so cool and amazing is that the the brim doesn’t have cardboard in it. So you can just wash it, you can just throw it in the wash and hang it up to dry and then wear it. It’s so stupid hot and sunny here that I’ve just been wearing it a ton and sweating in it. So it’ll get all sweaty and then I’ll just wash it.

Virginia

And then you can wash it and not just be like, well I just have this gross hat now. Well and you are the originator of the face shield trend.

Corinne

Yes. I know all of you out there are wearing your face shields.

Virignia

I mean, you made that happen.

Corinne

And I’m wearing mine right now as we speak.

Virginia

I’m just saying, you take face and protection very seriously, which I respect.

Corinne

You have to here, it’s brutal. We’re at high elevation so the sun sucks.

Virginia

I support you investing in a high quality hat. And it fits your  head? Because this is my big thing.

Corinne

It does fit my head but I think I have a large head but I don’t know maybe not that large. Oh, I also feel like it’s a really nice gift. 

Virginia

That is a lovely gift. 

Corinne

Maybe you feel a little weird about buying $100 baseball cap for yourself. But if you want to give someone a nice baseball hat, it’s a fun thing to receive.

Virginia

And to make feel people feel better about the price, I will drop a link to my favorite sun hat, which is this ridiculously oversized straw hat I got at Target at the end of the season, after my friend wore it when we were at the beach. It is huge and delightful.

It was sold out online. It might still be sold out online, but I think it’s gonna come back next year because I think they do it seasonally. [Post-recording note: As of Wednesday Oct 4, it’s back and just $17!! Stock up for next year.] But I was in Target and I found the last one in stock, and I was so happy. It’s really great. A giant wide brimmed hat is a less practical sun hat, like it is hard to wear in the car because you don’t fit. But it’s so cute and it’s $20.

Corinne

Okay, and my $100 baseball cap is very much like you could throw it in your bag. You could wear it literally anywhere. Mine are always in the backseat of my car. Super versatile.

Virginia

This is adorable. I’m excited for you. 

Corinne

What is your Butter?

Virginia

My Butter is totally free, just joy that I want to share with people just free joy. It is Griefcatpartytime on Instagram. They are my new obsession. They are a comedy musical duo. They’re so cute. They’re two fat singer / ukulele players. And the one I want to make sure that you hear—

Corinne

Well, okay, first of all these people are extremely cute and have extremely good style. 

Virginia

You can just play that one I just sent you.

Corinne

Oh my gosh. Okay. This song is called fat people poop the same amount as you. It is incredible. It’s so amazing. I mean, they’re doing important educational work. 

Virginia

The caption is “A biology lesson for our haters.” 

Corinne

So funny. 

Virginia

I’ve already DM’ed with them and am working on getting them on the podcast so stay tuned. We will make that happen, but in the meantime, go follow them on Instagram and enjoy it. They have another one that’s like something about benevolent billionaires, like they just are doing great work.

Corinne

I love it. I want to know where they got these pink fuzzy jackets they’re wearing!

Virginia

Their fashion is excellent. There are also these rainbow sequined dresses that were in a lot of the videos. We will definitely ask them.

Corinne

Cool. They look awesome.

Virginia

Alright, I think we did this episode! Thank you so much for listening to Burnt Toast.

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The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by me, Virginia Sole-Smith. You can follow me on Instagram.

Burnt Toast transcripts and essays are edited and formatted by Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing.

The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.

Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.

Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.

Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet, body liberation journalism!

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1 - Shhh, yes, we know it’s October.

2 - If this link says $228, don’t pay it! I got it on sale for about $100, it will drop again.