Dr. Debra Clary is a narrative scientist and author of “The Curiosity Curve.” In this episode, Debra discusses the transformative power of curiosity in leadership and organizational culture.  She shares her unconventional journey from aspiring stand-up comic to corporate executive at Fortune 50 companies, emphasizing the importance of self-awareness, persistence, and storytelling in leadership. Debra explains how curiosity can be learned and measured, highlighting its positive impact on leadership performance, employee engagement, and innovation.  She recounts experiences from her career and personal life, including her one-woman show “A Curious Woman,” which explored lessons from her corporate career with humor and vulnerability. Listen in to hear how you can foster curiosity in your teams, create psychological safety, and embrace feedback as a tool for growth and transformation.     Key Takeaways [03:23] Dr. Debra Clary shares her background as a stand-up comic before transitioning into the corporate world. Her father encouraged her to pursue her dreams while also giving honest feedback about her comedic talent, emphasizing the importance of self-awareness and persistence. [05:15] Debra highlights how curiosity can bridge divides, citing a personal experience on a train in Italy that made her realize Americans often prioritize speaking over listening. She emphasizes that genuine curiosity can help people understand different perspectives and reduce conflict. [08:16] Debra developed a curiosity assessment tool after being asked if curiosity is innate or learned. Her research found that curiosity can be developed and directly correlates with leadership performance, employee engagement, and innovation. [11:22] She discusses how societal norms often suppress curiosity, but it can be reignited through self-awareness and practice, like asking questions and exploring new ideas. Debra shares a case study where a CEO’s low curiosity impacted the entire company's innovation efforts. She stresses the importance of psychological safety and open feedback to prevent leadership from stifling creativity. [22:23] She emphasizes the power of storytelling for leadership, noting that effective communication involves multiple touchpoints and a consistent message. [26:45] Debra performed a one-woman show, A Curious Woman, to share lessons from her corporate career with humor and storytelling, using vulnerability as a tool for connection and growth. [29:08] She pursued a doctorate while working full-time, driven by curiosity about leadership and organizational culture. She balanced her studies with her professional and personal responsibilities, demonstrating resilience and discipline. [37:06] Debra concludes by emphasizing that curiosity has the power to transform relationships, organizations, and even the world, urging listeners to embrace it as a tool for positive change. [37:53] Closing quote: Remember, “Once we believe in ourselves, we can risk curiosity, wonder, spontaneous delight, or any experience that reveals the human spirit” —  E.E. Cummings   Quotable Quotes "Curiosity has immense power to transform relationships, families, teams, organizations, and even our world." "If we could truly listen to others without judgment, we could break through conflicts and divisions." "Curiosity can be learned, and it directly impacts leadership performance and employee engagement." "Negativity can kill curiosity, but positivity and curiosity can both be contagious." "A leader's role is to influence and inspire action through effective communication." "The most important thing a leader can do is have a compelling message that drives change." "We become conditioned to be incurious through societal norms and professional specialization." "Self-awareness and psychological safety are essential for fostering curiosity in teams." "Curiosity, paired with discipline, can be the driving force behind personal and professional success." “Once we believe in ourselves, we can risk curiosity, wonder, spontaneous delight, or any experience that reveals the human spirit” —  E.E. Cummings   Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | Sponsored by | Rafti Advisors. LLC | Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | Debra Clary’s LinkedIn | Debra Clary’s Website | Debra Clary’s Twitter |