TCC Podcast #139: What It Takes to Write a Book with Jennie Nash

Thinking about writing a book? Author and book coach Jennie Nash is our guest for the 139th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Although we’ve talked about writing a book on the podcast before, Rob and Kira wanted to go even deeper on the topic, as well as learn what it means to be a book coach. We learned a lot from the discussion. Here’s what we covered: •  how she became a book coach and landed book deals for her first 3 clients •  the embarrassingly easy process of writing her own first book •  where creativity and book ideas come from •  when someone should consider working with a book coach •  where writers go wrong in the book writing process •  the three critical motivations that drive people to write books •  the she turned book coaching into a thriving business •  whether copywriters should have a book to support their businesses •  the place ego plays in writing a book •  how she prices her coaching packages and what they include •  the importance of structure and where you can find them If you've even considered writing a book, you should listen to what Jennie has to share. Click the play button below, download the episode to your favorite podcast app, or scroll down to read a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Creative Habit by Twila Tharp Jenny’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob:   This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground. Kira:   It's our new membership designed for you, to help you attract more clients and hit 10K a month, consistently. Rob:   For more information or to sign up, go to thecopywriterunderground.com. What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two, to inspire your own work. That's what Kira and I do, every week, at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira:   You're invited to join the club for episode 139, as we chat with book coach, Jennie Nash, about writing and publishing a book, working in the publishing industry, what her writing process looks like, and how we can avoid the mistakes authors usually make when sitting down to write a book. Welcome Jennie. Rob:   Hey, Jennie. Jennie:          Hey, thanks for having me. Kira:   Yeah, great to have you here. So, let's kick this off with your story, how did you end up as a book coach? Jennie:          Well, I guess we should start out by saying what a book coach is, because a lot of people have never heard that term. Rob:   That's the question, what is a book coach? Jennie:          And I may have made it up, I don't know. I mean, I'm not claiming to have started the internet kind of thing. But, lots of people have been using this term, but the way I distinguish it, is that, an editor usually works on a piece of writing after that piece of writing is finished, in order to move it forward and make it better. And a book coach helps a writer while they're writing. So, the way I describe it is, it's like a personal trainer for your writing life. And a book coach is focused on book writing. So, that's what a book coach is. And I stumbled into this career after a career as an author. I had published seven books in two genres, mostly with big five publishers. And I was teaching at the UCLA writers program, which is actually the largest adult focused writing program in the country. And what I realized when I began teaching, I taught there for 12 years, and I realized that I was teaching systems. And that, nobody else around me was teaching systems. And it began to be quite obvious that I was doing something different. And I didn't know I was doing that, it just was a thing that I naturally did. And as a result of that practice, I guess, I would call it, I was approached by another instructor, who is Lisa Cron, who's the author of Wired for Story and Story Genius. And Lisa is a brilliant story analyst and she was teaching in the program as well and wanted to write a book about her thoughts and philosophies and ideas about story. But, she didn't know how, she had never written a book. And so, she recognized that I had the system's way of thinking and asked if I would coach her. And I didn't, at the time, know how to do that, or what that would look like or anything, but I said yes. And together, we found our way, and the result was the sale of that two book deal for her. And my next client in a different genre, sold his book to Simon and Schuster, his memoir to Simon and Schuster. So, the first three projects I worked on, ended up in big five book deals. So, I realized I was on to something, and began to do it full time. Rob:   That is awesome. So, I'm really curious about the systems that you use. But before we talk about that, tell us about the first book that you wrote. And was it easy? What was the struggle like? How did you pitch it to a publisher and actually get published? Jennie:          Yeah, I always hesitate to tell the story because it was easy, and that's not the experience for most people, and I recognize that I'm acutely aware of that. But, in my case, I was working for a New York City magazine, a slick city magazine called New York Woman. This was in the 80s. And it was owned by American Express Publishing, which at the time, owned Food and Wine and Architectural Digest. So, very high end, beautifully produced magazines. And I was the lowest rung on the editorial ladder. And the people that I was working with on staff there were just fantastically talented writers. Wendy Wasserstein wrote for us, Susannah Grant, who went on to write the movie. Erin Brockovich wrote for us, our editor in chief, Betsy Carter, had been the first and highest women editor at Newsweek. Just this embarrassment of riches of talent and I was the very bottom rung on the editorial ladder. And I ended up getting the opportunity to write an essay, a one-page essay in the magazine about... I was getting married, and I wrote this piece about my engagement. And as a result of this 800-word, one-page piece, one of the agents for one of our writers approached me and said, ‘Do you want to write a book about that?’ And I was 24, and I said yes. And I wrote that book and she sold it to Crown, and it was excerpted in Cosmo and Brides and that was that. So, it was embarrassingly easy. Kira:   So, we have to know, what did you say in that 800-word essay about your engagement? Jennie:          Well, what's so funny about it is, for your audience, I think, will really appreciate this. I'm 55 years old, so I wrote that essay when I was maybe 23, I don't know, a long time ago. And I can still remember the first line of that essay, it's etched into my head. And I think it just goes to show the power of a great sentence, great couple of words strung together. So, the sentence was this, ‘I'm about to be married and all I can think about is death.’ Rob:   What? Kira:   That is awesome. I love that. Jennie:          It was this piece about how really loving makes you totally vulnerable, and how horrible it is. And how making a commitment to somebody, just comes baked in with this terror. So, it was this funny piece about getting married, that was not a normal thing you might see. And I'm sure that, that's... It was just that sentiment and that voice and that difference that caught the agent's eye. But yes, I think it might be the best sentence I ever wrote. Kira:   That's a powerful sentence. So, let's go down this rabbit hole for a little bit and talk about love. Because, I feel the same way about love. So, how have you resolved that feeling and that sentence about love, over the past few decades? How do you feel today about love? Jennie:          Well, it's interesting you should ask this, I just celebrated my 30th wedding anniversary last week, and that feeling has absolutely not diminished. I think, it's in fact, gotten worse. And my husband and I were reflecting on that day, it was kind of sick, but, we were reflecting like, the only way out of this at this point is somebody dies. I mean, that's true with all of us with life. But, with this relationship and this love and it's just been a pillar of our lives and a great accomplishment, we both came from families that were very broken. And so, yeah, it has not diminished. And I think that, juxtaposition of love and death and joy and despair, it's hard to ignore, at least for me. And so, it's shocking when I think about the number of times that my husband has died in my head. I've contemplated his not being here. Kira:   Yeah. Okay, so, I want to hijack this whole conversation and just talk about love with you, but I know Rob would probably not like that. I feel like that they just say- Rob:   I mean, my game. I don't have feelings. Kira:   Yeah. So, we should definitely talk about this over a glass of wine sometime, Jennie. But, let's go back to systems and what you said about teaching systems that you didn't realize at the time, that, that's what you were doing. Can you talk a little bit more about what you mean by that? I couldn't completely picture the systems that you were talking about. Jennie:          Yeah, it's been very exciting to me the past however many years of getting more conscious and aware of the systems that govern the creative process. So, I think in our culture, we tend to think of creativity often as this thing that bubbles up from within you, or, is imposed from outside this idea of the genius, right? The genius in the attic that just comes up with a great idea and unleashes it upon the world. So, that's coming up from inside you. Or, the idea that it's imposed upon you in the way of a muse, or somehow looking for inspiration from outside. And I have found that,