The Testing Psychologist Podcast 521. Pathological Demand Avoidance w/ Dr. Donna Henderson
Would you rather read the transcript? Click here.
In this episode, I sit down again with Dr. Donna Henderson — one of my most popular guests ever — to take a deep dive into pathological demand avoidance (PDA), a concept that’s becoming increasingly relevant but remains controversial in the US. Donna shares the personal case story that sparked her interest in PDA, defines what makes it distinct from typical demand avoidance, ODD, DMDD, and anxiety, and walks us through the core features and practical assessment strategies. We also explore how to support kids and families when PDA is part of the picture and where the field might be headed next. If you’ve ever scratched your head over a child who “must be in charge” and deeply struggles with demands, this conversation is for you.
Topics We Cover
- Donna’s journey: the first child who led her to discover PDA
- What PDA is (and what it’s not)
- The historical origins of PDA and why the term might need an update
- How PDA differs from typical demand avoidance, ODD, DMDD, anxiety, and trauma
- Core features of PDA and vivid real-life examples
- How to assess for PDA: interview approaches, testing adaptations, and pitfalls to avoid
- Communicating PDA findings to families without over-pathologizing
- Recommendations for families, schools, and clinicians — what actually works
- Future directions for research and how to stay curious in your practice
Cool Things Mentioned
- The Testing Psychologist mastermind groups and business consulting
- Reverb AI report-writing software
- PDA North America — support and resources for professionals and families
- PDA Society (UK) — original hub for information on PDA
- Is This Autism? by Donna Henderson, Sarah Wayland, and Jamell White — isthisautism.com
- Dr. Donna Henderson’s website — drdonnahenderson.com
- Donna’s handout on core features of PDA
- Stixrud Group practice — stixrud.com
Featured Resources
I am honored to partner with two AMAZING companies to help improve your testing practice!
PAR is a long time supporter of the Testing Psychologist podcast, and I will continue to bring you featured items from their catalog! Listen to each episode for specific product recommendations and links. Learn more at www.parinc.com.
TherapyNotes is the leading EHR system for mental health practitioners. I’ve used TherapyNotes for over 10 years, and it just keeps getting better. Use this link and the promo code “testing” to get two free months and try it for yourself! www.therapynotes.com/testing
The Testing Psychologist podcast is approved for CEU’s!
I’ve partnered with At Health to offer CE credits for podcast episodes! Visit this link to access current and past episodes available for CE credit. You can use code “TTP10” for a discount on ALL the course credits you purchase from At Health!
About Dr. Donna Henderson
Dr. Donna Henderson has been a clinical neuropsychologist for over 30 years. She is passionate about identifying and supporting autistic individuals, particularly those who camouflage, and she is co-author (with Drs. Sarah Wayland and Jamell White) of two books: Is This Autism? A guide for clinicians and everyone else and Is This Autism? A companion guide for diagnosing. Dr. Henderson’s professional home is The Stixrud Group in Silver Spring, Maryland, where she provides neuropsychological evaluations and consultations for children, adolescents, and adults who would like to understand themselves better. She is a sought-after lecturer on the less obvious presentations of autism, autistic girls and women, PDA, and on parenting children with complex profiles. She also provides case consultations and neurodiversity-affirmative training for other healthcare professionals.
Get in Touch & Resources:
- Website: isthisautism.com
- Website: stixrud.com
- E-mail: drdonnahenderson@gmail.com
About Dr. Jeremy Sharp
I’m a licensed psychologist and Clinical Director at the Colorado Center for Assessment & Counseling, a private practice that I founded in 2009 and have grown to over 20 clinicians. I earned my undergraduate degree in Experimental Psychology from the University of South Carolina before getting my Master’s and PhD in Counseling Psychology from Colorado State University. These days, I specialize in psychological and neuropsychological evaluation with kids and adolescents.
As the host of the Testing Psychologist Podcast, I provide private practice consulting for psychologists and other mental health professionals who want to start or grow psychological testing services in their practices. I live in Fort Collins, Colorado with my wife (also a therapist) and two young kids.
Ready to grow your testing services? Click below to schedule a complimentary 30-minute pre-consulting call!