#1179 Jaap de Roode - Doctors by Nature: How Ants, Apes, and Other Animals Heal Themselves

Nov 21, 2025

Jaap de Roode, a biology professor at Emory University and author of *Doctors by Nature*, shares fascinating insights into how animals self-medicate. He discusses methods like therapeutic medication used by woolly bear caterpillars and prophylaxis observed in primates. De Roode explores behaviors like body anointing in lemurs and fumigation practices of birds. The conversation touches on whether animals are consciously aware of their medicinal actions and the implications for conservation and human medicine. You’ll discover surprising ways nature inspires healing!

Ask episode

AI Snips

Chapters

Transcript

Episode notes

INSIGHT

Animals Use Natural Medicines

Many non-human animals use environmental compounds as medicines against infections like bacteria, viruses, and worms.
Demonstrating medication requires showing targeted use when sick and that the compound acts against the pathogen.

INSIGHT

Therapeutic Medication Defined

Therapeutic medication is when an animal uses a compound after becoming sick to relieve or cure symptoms.
Researchers confirm it by observing specific sick behavior, recovery, and measurable effects of the compound.

ANECDOTE

Chimpanzees Use Bitter Leaves

Mike Huffman and Mohamedy observed chimpanzees chewing bitter leaves and extracting pith juice that dislodged intestinal parasites.
The chimps used the plant when symptomatic and then recovered, a hallmark of therapeutic medication.

Get the Snipd Podcast app to discover more snips from this episode

Get the app

******Support the channel******

Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thedissenter

PayPal: paypal.me/thedissenter

PayPal Subscription 3 Dollars: https://tinyurl.com/ybn6bg9l

PayPal Subscription 5 Dollars: https://tinyurl.com/ycmr9gpz

PayPal Subscription 10 Dollars: https://tinyurl.com/y9r3fc9m

PayPal Subscription 20 Dollars: https://tinyurl.com/y95uvkao

******Follow me on******

Website: https://www.thedissenter.net/

The Dissenter Goodreads list: https://shorturl.at/7BMoB

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thedissenteryt/

Twitter: https://x.com/TheDissenterYT

This show is sponsored by Enlites, Learning & Development done differently. Check the website here: http://enlites.com/

Dr. Jaap de Roode is Samuel C. Dobbs Professor in the Department of Biology at Emory University. He studies the ecology and evolution of parasites and their hosts, and is interested in co-infections of different parasite species, self-medication in hosts, and local coevolution of hosts and parasites. One of his main interests is the evolution of parasite virulence (i.e. parasite-induced reductions of host fitness). He is the author of Doctors by Nature: How Ants, Apes, and Other Animals Heal Themselves.

In this episode, we focus on Doctors by Nature. We talk about four different ways that animals use natural products to fight infections and alleviate disease: prophylaxis; therapeutic medication; body anointing; and fumigation. We discuss whether animals know that they are medicating themselves, and whether these behaviors are learned or innate. We go through examples of monarch butterflies, apes that swallow leaves to dislodge worms, how bees combat pathogens, social distancing, nausea and neophobia, and why dogs eat grass. We discuss when humans started using medication, and how we can benefit from studying the medicating behaviors of animals. Finally, we talk about applications of this knowledge.

A HUGE THANK YOU TO MY PATRONS/SUPPORTERS: PER HELGE LARSEN, JERRY MULLER, BERNARDO SEIXAS, ADAM KESSEL, MATTHEW WHITINGBIRD, ARNAUD WOLFF, TIM HOLLOSY, HENRIK AHLENIUS, ROBERT WINDHAGER, RUI INACIO, ZOOP, MARCO NEVES, COLIN HOLBROOK, PHIL KAVANAGH, SAMUEL ANDREEFF, FRANCIS FORDE, TIAGO NUNES, FERGAL CUSSEN, HAL HERZOG, NUNO MACHADO, JONATHAN LEIBRANT, JOÃO LINHARES, STANTON T, SAMUEL CORREA, ERIK HAINES, MARK SMITH, JOÃO EIRA, TOM HUMMEL, SARDUS FRANCE, DAVID SLOAN WILSON, YACILA DEZA-ARAUJO, ROMAIN ROCH, DIEGO LONDOÑO CORREA, YANICK PUNTER, CHARLOTTE BLEASE, NICOLE BARBARO, ADAM HUNT, PAWEL OSTASZEWSKI, NELLEKE BAK, GUY MADISON, GARY G HELLMANN, SAIMA AFZAL, ADRIAN JAEGGI, PAULO TOLENTINO, JOÃO BARBOSA, JULIAN PRICE, HEDIN BRØNNER, DOUGLAS FRY, FRANCA BORTOLOTTI, GABRIEL PONS CORTÈS, URSULA LITZCKE, SCOTT, ZACHARY FISH, TIM DUFFY, SUNNY SMITH, JON WISMAN, WILLIAM BUCKNER, LUKE GLOWACKI, GEORGIOS THEOPHANOUS, CHRIS WILLIAMSON, PETER WOLOSZYN, DAVID WILLIAMS, DIOGO COSTA, ALEX CHAU, CORALIE CHEVALLIER, BANGALORE ATHEISTS, LARRY D. LEE JR., OLD HERRINGBONE, MICHAEL BAILEY, DAN SPERBER, ROBERT GRESSIS, JEFF MCMAHAN, JAKE ZUEHL, BARNABAS RADICS, MARK CAMPBELL, TOMAS DAUBNER, LUKE NISSEN, KIMBERLY JOHNSON, JESSICA NOWICKI, LINDA BRANDIN, VALENTIN STEINMANN, ALEXANDER HUBBARD, BR, JONAS HERTNER, URSULA GOODENOUGH, DAVID PINSOF, SEAN NELSON, MIKE LAVIGNE, JOS KNECHT, LUCY, MANVIR SINGH, PETRA WEIMANN, CAROLA FEEST, MAURO JÚNIOR, 航豊川, TONY BARRETT, NIKOLAI VISHNEVSKY, STEVEN GANGESTAD, TED FARRIS, HUGO B., JAMES, JORDAN MANSFIELD, CHARLOTTE ALLEN, PETER STOYKO, DAVID TONNER, LEE BECK, PATRICK DALTON-HOLMES, NICK KRASNEY, AND RACHEL ZAK!

A SPECIAL THANKS TO MY PRODUCERS, YZAR WEHBE, JIM FRANK, ŁUKASZ STAFINIAK, TOM VANEGDOM, BERNARD HUGUENEY, CURTIS DIXON, BENEDIKT MUELLER, THOMAS TRUMBLE, KATHRINE AND PATRICK TOBIN, JONCARLO MONTENEGRO, NICK GOLDEN, CHRISTINE GLASS, IGOR NIKIFOROVSKI, PER KRAULIS, AND JOSHUA WOOD!

AND TO MY EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS, MATTHEW LAVENDER, SERGIU CODREANU, ROSEY, AND GREGORY HASTINGS!