Mark Leonard speaks with Jeremy Heimans about his new book, and the old and new ways to achieve intended effects. The podcast was recorded on 27 July 2018.Picture credit: Internet map 1024 by The Opte Project via Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecommunications_network#/media/File:Internet_map_1024.jpg, CC-BY-2.5 https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.5/
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