#97 – Mike Berkowitz on keeping the US a liberal democratic country

Apr 20, 2021

Mike Berkowitz, the executive director of the Democracy Funders Network, discusses the fragility of liberal democracy in the U.S., emphasizing the difference between laws and customs. He highlights the risks of partisanship and the importance of reforming the political system to uphold democratic norms. Topics include the aftermath of the 2020 election, the fight against voter suppression, and the role of local journalism in a healthy democracy. Berkowitz advocates for cross-ideological collaboration to combat rising polarization and sustain democratic integrity.

Ask episode

AI Snips

Chapters

Books

Transcript

Episode notes

INSIGHT

Erosion of Democracy

The erosion of US democracy is more likely to resemble illiberal democracy or soft authoritarianism than a totalitarian state.
These regimes often involve compromised elections, weakened checks and balances, and suppressed civil liberties.

INSIGHT

Democracy Beyond Voting

Democracy encompasses more than just voting.
Issues like civic learning, access to information, and social cohesion are also crucial for a healthy democracy.

ANECDOTE

January 6th and Its Aftermath

The January 6th attack was a foreseeable consequence of rising political violence.
The denial of its severity by some, including prominent politicians, is deeply concerning.

Get the Snipd Podcast app to discover more snips from this episode

Get the app

How Democracies Die

Steven Levitsky

Daniel Ziblatt

In this book, Harvard professors Steven Levitsky and Daniel Ziblatt examine the breakdown of democracies, arguing that modern democracies do not die in a sudden coup but rather through the slow erosion of critical institutions and political norms. Drawing on decades of research and examples from 1930s Europe to contemporary cases in Hungary, Turkey, Venezuela, and the American South during Jim Crow, the authors highlight the importance of mutual toleration and forbearance in maintaining democratic stability. They identify key indicators of authoritarian behavior, such as the rejection of democratic rules, denial of opponents' legitimacy, tolerance of violence, and curtailment of civil liberties. The book also discusses the role of political parties in defending democracy and proposes solutions to counteract democratic backsliding, including elite-level cooperation, addressing social inequalities, and restoring democratic norms[2][4][5].

The People vs. Democracy

Why our freedom is in danger and how to save it

Yascha Mounk

In *The People vs. Democracy*, Yascha Mounk examines the rise of authoritarian populism and the breakdown of liberal democracy. He argues that two core components of liberal democracy—individual rights and the popular will—are increasingly at odds, leading to systems of 'rights without democracy' and 'democracy without rights.' Mounk identifies key drivers of this crisis, including economic stagnation, fear of multiethnic democracy, and the impact of social media.

Doing Good Better

Will MacAskill

The Precipice

Existential Risk and the Future of Humanity

Toby Ord

In this book, Toby Ord argues that humanity is in a uniquely dangerous period, which he terms 'the Precipice,' beginning with the first atomic bomb test in 1945. Ord examines various existential risks, including natural and anthropogenic threats, and estimates that there is a one in six chance of humanity suffering an existential catastrophe within the next 100 years. He advocates for a major reorientation in how we see the world and our role in it, emphasizing the need for collective action to minimize these risks and ensure a safe future for humanity. The book integrates insights from multiple disciplines, including physics, biology, earth science, computer science, history, anthropology, statistics, international relations, and moral philosophy[1][3][5].

Divided We Fall

Sean Patrick Hopkins

David French

In 'Divided We Fall,' David French examines the growing tensions and divisions within American society that are leading to increased discussions about secession. The book delves into the historical, cultural, and political factors contributing to these divisions and offers a compelling argument for why national unity is crucial. French provides practical suggestions and strategies for rebuilding a more cohesive and resilient American society.

Politics Is for Power

Eitan Hersh

In this book, Eitan Hersh argues that many people treat politics as a spectator sport, which he terms 'political hobbyism.' Instead of merely consuming political news or posting on social media, Hersh advocates for building political organizations, implementing long-term visions for local communities, and getting to know neighbors to accumulate power and make real change. The book is supported by cutting-edge social science and stories of ordinary citizens who have taken political power seriously, highlighting the importance of local, face-to-face networks and providing community services to rebuild political power at the grassroots level.

Our Common Purpose

Reinventing American Democracy for the 21st Century

Stephen Heintz

Danielle Allen

Our Common Purpose: Reinventing American Democracy for the 21st Century presents a case for renewed civic faith and offers recommendations to build a collective commitment to democratic citizenship. The report outlines six key imperatives to achieve equality of voice, empower voters, ensure institutional responsiveness, expand civil society, build civic information architecture, and inspire a culture of commitment to democracy.

What Comes Next? Lessons for the Recovery of Liberal Democracy

Rachel Kleinfeld

David Solimini

This publication explores the challenges facing liberal democracies, particularly in the context of the United States, and offers insights from other countries that have experienced democratic decline and recovery. It provides lessons for renewal and addresses the broader implications of democratic erosion.

Donald Trump’s attempt to overturn the results of the 2020 election split the Republican party. There were those who went along with it — 147 members of Congress raised objections to the official certification of electoral votes — but there were others who refused. These included Brad Raffensperger and Brian Kemp in Georgia, and Vice President Mike Pence.

Although one could say that the latter Republicans showed great courage, the key to the split may lie less in differences of moral character or commitment to democracy, and more in what was being asked of them. Trump wanted the first group to break norms, but he wanted the second group to break the law.

And while norms were indeed shattered, laws were upheld.

Today’s guest, Mike Berkowitz, executive director of the Democracy Funders Network, points out a problem we came to realize throughout the Trump presidency: So many of the things that we thought were laws were actually just customs.

Links to learn more, summary and full transcript.

So once you have leaders who don’t buy into those customs — like, say, that a president shouldn’t tell the Department of Justice who it should and shouldn’t be prosecuting — there’s nothing preventing said customs from being violated.

And what happens if current laws change?

A recent Georgia bill took away some of the powers of Georgia's Secretary of State — Brad Raffensberger. Mike thinks that's clearly retribution for Raffensperger's refusal to overturn the 2020 election results. But he also thinks it means that the next time someone tries to overturn the results of the election, they could get much farther than Trump did in 2020.

In this interview Mike covers what he thinks are the three most important levers to push on to preserve liberal democracy in the United States:
1. Reforming the political system, by e.g. introducing new voting methods
2. Revitalizing local journalism
3. Reducing partisan hatred within the United States

Mike says that American democracy, like democracy elsewhere in the world, is not an inevitability. The U.S. has institutions that are really important for the functioning of democracy, but they don't automatically protect themselves — they need people to stand up and protect them.

In addition to the changes listed above, Mike also thinks that we need to harden more norms into laws, such that individuals have fewer opportunities to undermine the system.

And inasmuch as laws provided the foundation for the likes of Raffensperger, Kemp, and Pence to exhibit political courage, if we can succeed in creating and maintaining the right laws — we may see many others following their lead.

As Founding Father James Madison put it: “If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary.”

Mike and Rob also talk about:
• What sorts of terrible scenarios we should actually be worried about, i.e. the difference between being overly alarmist and properly alarmist
• How to reduce perverse incentives for political actors, including those to overturn election results
• The best opportunities for donations in this space
• And much more

Chapters:

Rob’s intro (00:00:00)
The interview begins (00:02:01)
What we should actually be worried about (00:05:03)
January 6th, 2021 (00:11:03)
Trump’s defeat (00:16:44)
Improving incentives for representatives (00:30:55)
Signs of a loss of confidence in American democratic institutions (00:44:58)
Most valuable political reforms (00:54:39)
Revitalising local journalism (01:08:07)
Reducing partisan hatred (01:21:53)
Should workplaces be political? (01:31:40)
Mistakes of the left (01:36:50)
Risk of overestimating the problem (01:39:56)
Charitable giving (01:48:13)
How to shortlist projects (01:56:42)
Speaking to Republicans (02:04:15)
Patriots & Pragmatists and The Democracy Funders Network (02:12:51)
Rob’s outro (02:32:58)

Producer: Keiran Harris.
Audio mastering: Ben Cordell.
Transcriptions: Sofia Davis-Fogel.