The spying game was supposed to fade into history with the Cold War. But Vladimir Putin’s historic grievances, obsession with Ukraine and need to placate his own intelligence agencies have sent a new wave of espionage across the world. The West thinks we’re at peace. The Russians know we’re at war. So what are Western intelligence agencies going to do about it?

Gavin Esler speaks to Russian investigative journalist and security services expert Andrei Soldatov and former CIA officer turned novelist Alex Finley about our new Age of Spies – from murders on foreign soil to the information war on Kyiv to the infestation of Vienna as an “aircraft carrier of spies”

• “The first round [in this espionage battle] was the Second World War, and Russia won that one. The second was the Cold War which Russia lost. For Russia, this is the third round – and it’s time for revenge.” – Andrei Soldatov

• “Ukraine is the kinetic war but really this is worldwide hybrid war against the rest of us. It’s much bigger than most people realise.” – Alex Finley

• “European intelligence agencies operate as if this is a time of peace. For Russian agencies, this is a time of war.” – Andrei Soldatov

• “We’re at a pivotal moment in history. Either we are going to secure democracy or we are going to enter an authoritarian moment.” – Alex Finley

Buy The Compatriots: The Russian Exiles Who Fought Against the Kremlin by Andrei Soldatov through our affiliate bookshop and you’ll be helping to support This Is Not A Drill. Bookshop.org’s fees help support independent bookshops too.

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Written and presented by Gavin Esler. Produced by Robin Leeburn. Original theme music by Paul Hartnoll – https://www.orbitalofficial.com. Executive Producer Martin Bojtos. Group Editor Andrew Harrison. This Is Not A Drill is a Podmasters production

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