The Gray Area with Sean Illing The moral philosophy of The Good Place (with Mike Schur and Pamela Hieronymi)
Dec 9, 2019
Join Mike Schur, the comedic mastermind behind The Good Place and Parks and Recreation, along with UCLA professor Pamela Hieronymi, as they explore the fascinating intersection of humor and moral philosophy. They discuss how ethical dilemmas are woven into the fabric of the show and the complexities of being a good person in a morally ambiguous world. With captivating anecdotes, they navigate topics like empathy, accountability, and societal norms, proving that profound philosophical questions can indeed make for great television!
01:44:49
The Good Place's Philosophical Origins
- Mike Schur, after reading about moral philosophy, realized he needed expert help for his show, "The Good Place".
- He found Pamela Hieronymi through UCLA's website and their first meeting was at Starbucks.
Can We Try to Be Good?
- Trying to be good is philosophically complex.
- Pamela Hieronymi challenged Schur's premise, stating most philosophers believe you cannot try to be good, you simply are.
The Problem with 'Faking It'
- If you're trying to be good, you lack a good person's motives.
- "Fake it till you make it" has a flaw: you might just become good at faking, not truly good.
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Intro
00:00 • 4min
Exploring Moral Philosophy in Media
03:53 • 20min
Navigating Moral Responsibility
23:57 • 16min
Navigating the Complexities of Morality and Self-Interest
40:16 • 3min
The Quest for Moral Clarity
43:06 • 19min
Moral Dilemmas and Social Influence
01:02:21 • 25min
Exploring Ethical Storytelling in Television
01:27:31 • 5min
Influential Reads and Creative Impact
01:32:49 • 8min
What We Owe to Each Other
T. M. Scanlon
In *What We Owe to Each Other*, T. M. Scanlon presents a contractualist view of morality, arguing that moral judgments are based on principles that could not reasonably be rejected by others.
The book explores how this approach explains duties such as honesty and promise-keeping, and it challenges traditional views on reasons, value, and well-being.
Scanlon's work offers a novel perspective on moral philosophy, emphasizing the importance of mutual justification and criticism in understanding right and wrong.
Being and Nothingness
Jean-Paul Sartre
In 'Being and Nothingness,' Jean-Paul Sartre delves into the fundamental categories of being and nothingness.
He distinguishes between 'being-in-itself' (objects that simply exist and are unaware of themselves) and 'being-for-itself' (human consciousness, which is self-aware and free).
Sartre argues that human beings are characterized by their freedom and responsibility, and that they must create their own being through their actions in the world.
The book also introduces the concept of 'being-for-others,' highlighting the impact of others on our self-perception.
Sartre rejects traditional notions of a transcendent reality and instead emphasizes the importance of individual responsibility and authenticity in human existence.
We Are the Weather
Saving the Planet Begins at Breakfast
Jonathan Safran Foer
In *We Are the Weather*, Jonathan Safran Foer delves into the central global dilemma of climate change with a surprising, deeply personal, and urgent approach.
The book highlights how our planet has been transformed into a farm for growing animal products, leading to catastrophic consequences.
Foer argues that collective action, starting with simple dietary changes such as reducing animal product consumption, is crucial for saving the planet.
He draws analogies from historical events, personal experiences, and scientific facts to emphasize the need for individual responsibility and action in combating climate change.
Mortal Questions
Thomas Nagel
Mortal Questions by Thomas Nagel delves into profound issues related to the meaning, nature, and value of human life.
The book addresses topics such as attitudes toward death, sexual behavior, social inequality, war, and political power, leading to deeper philosophical discussions on personal identity, consciousness, freedom, and value.
It offers a blend of theoretical and personal insights into life's most critical questions.
Ordinary Vices
Ordinary Vices
None
Judith Shklar
The life you can save
How to Play Your Part in Ending World Poverty
Peter Singer
Peter Singer's "The Life You Can Save" is a compelling argument for effective altruism, urging readers to donate to charities that demonstrably alleviate suffering.
Singer challenges conventional thinking about philanthropy, emphasizing the moral obligation to maximize the positive impact of our donations.
The book presents a practical framework for identifying and supporting high-impact charities, focusing on cost-effectiveness and measurable results.
Singer's work has sparked significant debate and inspired many to re-evaluate their charitable giving.
The book's core message is that even small contributions can make a substantial difference in the lives of others.
Justice
What's the Right Thing to Do?
Michael Sandel
In this book, Michael J. Sandel delves into various theories of justice, including utilitarianism, libertarianism, and the philosophies of Aristotle, Kant, and Rawls.
He applies these theories to contemporary legal and political controversies, encouraging readers to think critically about complex issues and to engage in a more robust and thoughtful public discourse.
The book is based on Sandel's renowned Harvard course and aims to help readers make sense of politics, morality, and their own convictions.
The Brothers Karamazov
Larissa Volokhonsky
Fyodor Dostoevsky
Richard Pevear
Set in 19th-century Russia, 'The Brothers Karamazov' is a novel that delves into the lives of the Karamazov family, focusing on the three brothers—Dmitri, Ivan, and Alyosha—and their complex relationships with their father, Fyodor Pavlovich Karamazov.
The novel is a murder mystery, a courtroom drama, and an exploration of erotic rivalry, faith, doubt, and reason.
It examines the human psyche, moral dilemmas, and the search for meaning in a world fraught with suffering and uncertainty.
The story revolves around the murder of Fyodor Pavlovich and the subsequent trial of Dmitri, accused of the crime, while exploring deeper themes of Russian life, social and spiritual striving, and the clash between faith and reason.
The Spy Who Came In From The Cold
John Le Carré
The Spy Who Came in from the Cold is a gripping Cold War novel by John le Carré, focusing on Alec Leamas, a British intelligence officer tasked with a final mission before retirement.
Leamas is sent to East Germany as a faux defector to sow disinformation about Hans-Dieter Mundt, a powerful East German intelligence officer.
The novel explores themes of espionage, loyalty, and the moral complexities of spy work during the Cold War era.
The Namesake
Jhumpa Lahiri
The Namesake follows the lives of Ashoke and Ashima Ganguli, who immigrate from Kolkata to Cambridge, Massachusetts.
Their son, Gogol, named after the Russian author Nikolai Gogol, grapples with his dual identity as an American and a Bengali.
The novel delves into themes of cultural identity, family traditions, and the challenges of balancing two distinct worlds.
It chronicles Gogol's journey through his childhood, education, relationships, and eventual marriage, highlighting the tensions and reconciliations within his family and his own sense of self.
Animal liberation
Peter Singer
First published in 1975, 'Animal Liberation' by Peter Singer has been a pivotal book in the animal rights movement.
It introduces the concept of 'speciesism,' the systematic neglect and exploitation of nonhuman animals.
Singer argues that the interests of all beings capable of suffering should be given equal consideration, regardless of their species.
The book critiques factory farming and animal experimentation, presenting alternatives and advocating for a vegetarian or vegan lifestyle.
The revised edition, 'Animal Liberation Now,' updates the arguments to reflect current issues, including environmental impacts and the spread of viruses from factory farms.
Beloved
Toni Morrison
Published in 1987, 'Beloved' is a work of historical fiction that delves into the aftermath of the American Civil War. The novel centers around Sethe, a Black woman who escaped from slavery in Kentucky and now lives in Ohio.
However, her life is haunted by the ghost of her two-year-old daughter, whom she killed to prevent her from being taken back into slavery.
The story is deeply intertwined with themes of mother-daughter relationships, the power of family and community, and the lasting impact of slavery on individuals and society.
The novel introduces a mysterious figure named Beloved, who is the physical manifestation of Sethe's murdered daughter, and explores how this presence disrupts and ultimately transforms the lives of Sethe and her surviving daughter, Denver.
Through a complex narrative that includes flashbacks, stream-of-consciousness monologues, and multiple voices, Morrison examines the trauma and resilience of those affected by slavery.
After creating and running Parks and Recreation and writing for The Office, Michael Schur decided he wanted to create a sitcom about one of the most fundamental questions of human existence: What does it mean to be a good person? That’s how The Good Place was born.
Soon into the show’s writing, Schur realized he was in way over his head. The question of human morality is one of the most complicated and hotly contested subjects of all time. He needed someone to help him out. So, he recruited Pamela Hieronymi, a professor at UCLA specializing in the subjects of moral responsibility, psychology, and free will, to join the show as a “consulting philosopher” — surely a first in sitcom history.
I wanted to bring Shur and Hieronymi onto the show because The Good Place should not exist. Moral philosophy is traditionally the stuff of obscure academic journals and undergraduate seminars, not popular television. Yet, three-and-a-half seasons on, The Good Place is not only one of the funniest sitcoms on TV, it has popularized academic philosophy in an unprecedented fashion and put forward its own highly sophisticated moral vision.
This is a conversation about how and why The Good Place exists and what it reflects about The Odd Place in which we actually live. Unlike a lot of conversations about moral philosophy, this one is a lot of fun.
References:
Dylan Matthews' brilliant profile on The Good Place
Dylan Matthews on why he donated his kidney
Book recommendations:
Michael Schur:
Ordinary Vices by Judith N. Shklar
The Spy Who Came in from the Cold by John le Carré
Beloved by Toni Morrison
Pamela Hieronymi:
What We Owe to Each Other by T.M. Scanlon
Being and Nothingness by Jean-Paul Sartre
Mortal Questions by Thomas Nagel
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