You’re listening to Burnt Toast!
We are Virginia Sole-Smith and Corinne Fay, and it’s time for your February Indulgence Gospel.
Today we’re updating you on our great experiment: How did we do with 30 days of NO AMAZON? We’re going to get into:
⭐️ Why did we quit Amazon in the first place?
⭐️ Is quitting Amazon a diet—or at least, diet culture-adjacent?
⭐️ What was our biggest fail?
⭐️ Will we keep going???
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Episode 179 Transcript
Virginia
Okay, before we report on how we did, we need to give a little context, in case folks missed the episode where we announced the challenge.
So Corinne, do you want to talk about why we did this?
Corinne
I think it originated in the post-election chaos. We were feeling like we wanted to do something to step away from the billionaire oligarchs who have taken control of our country.
Virginia
Yep, yep, yep, definitely.
Corinne
And also at that time, there was a call to boycott Amazon because of union stuff.
Virginia
And then Bezos gave Trump a bunch of money for the inauguration. There was just a whole bunch of Amazon setting the world on fire stuff all at once. So it felt like a tipping point for some of us.
Corinne
We also had recently reviewed all of our 2024 Butters. And it was like, wow, some of these shopping ones are not so good.
Virginia
Yes.
Corinne
Let’s re-examine our shopping habits.
Virginia
I think I’m in a perpetual I-should-reexamine-my-shopping-habits state of being. But this is the first time I’ve taken a concrete step towards changing my shopping habits. So whatever else happens, I am proud of myself for taking that step. That was big for me.
Corinne
We talked about this a little bit in the chat, but we just also want to acknowledge here that quitting Amazon is not something everyone can or wants to do. We are not at all trying to suggest that this is any kind of moral high ground, or something everyone needs to do.
Virginia
That chat was very interesting, because some folks were mad at us for not having done this sooner. There was definitely that vibe of “Oh, you’re just getting to this party,” which, okay, fair note. We have Amazon-ed for a long time. But also, it’s maybe not the most helpful call-in to be like, “Why didn’t you do this already?” Like, we’re here now. We’re trying!
But then lots of other folks—I think understandably—felt threatened by the prospect of us doing this. No buy challenges of any kind can trigger a diet mentality for lots of us. And if that is true for you, this will not be a healthy thing for you to do.
Which is okay! There are other ways you can make positive change in the world. This is not the best, or only, way.
Corinne
Some of the folks who spoke up about a No Amazon Challenge not being a good fit for them are some disabled folks and folks who live in rural areas where getting stuff delivered to your house is really challenging any other way. We completely hear that.
Virginia
And I also just want to say: If you are a new parent, I really firmly believe that Amazon is filling in for our lack of structural supports. Especially in the infant and toddlerhood stages. I Amazon Primed so many things to try to make my baby sleep in those years, none of which were particularly helpful. But it speaks to the larger issue of how little support we have for new moms trying to make babies sleep. So the $90 bassinet thing feels like it’s going to be the answer, and it probably isn’t.
Corinne
Yeah, I think that comes up around a lot of different life situations, like illness, taking care of ill people, or ill parents. Any caregiving work. It definitely can be a coping mechanism, or just a helpful tool.
Virginia
You’re overwhelmed and buying this thing is a problem you can solve, unlike whatever larger issues you can’t solve. We can all reflect on whether this is something we can do, or want to do, but it’s okay if this is not the right fit for you, especially right now. It might be in a few years or in six months.
Now let’s get into it. Corinne, how did you do?
Corinne
It was such an interesting exercise. I think a lot of the time, I found myself feeling confused. Like, this is something I would normally buy on Amazon. If I’m not buying it on Amazon, do I actually need this? And one thing about Amazon that I just hadn’t thought a ton about before, is—it’s kind of reliable. When I was thinking about ordering something from another website, I would just find myself thinking, “Is this a real website? Is this actually going to come? Do they have a return policy?” Like, what’s happening?
Virginia
There’s an infrastructure and a predictability to Amazon that we’ve all been trained to expect. They’re able to do it because of all of the terrible things they’re doing, exploiting their workers. That’s how this stuff shows up so fast. It’s not good, but we are conditioned to expect it, and then it feels like this scary leap of faith to be, like, two weeks shipping? I mean, who knows?
Corinne
And because they’re so big, they can deal with it when stuff goes wrong. If something arrives broken, or it’s the wrong thing, they just credit you back really quickly.
Virginia
Right, because they’re taking it from the supplier.
I mean, I think the main reason it didn’t feel more restrictive for me was because of Target. And so I want to fully own that I didn’t divest from big box shopping. Many things that I would have bought on Amazon, I bought on Target.
But I do think I still bought somewhat less. There’s a category of product that only get on Amazon, where it’s like a very specific solution to a niche problem that you’ve sort of made up. For example, my worst offense—I mean, there are so many! But one I remember from last year is when I was getting really annoyed, because when my kids ate snacks on the couch, they made a mess. And I was like, “We need little tray tables for them to eat their snacks on.” And so I went on this whole research mission, trying to buy tray tables. And I ended up buying these tables that have compartments that are designed to hold a cup and a remote control and whatever else. And we have never used them because the compartments are weird shapes that don’t fit anything. It was just an absolute waste of time. Like, it was just an absolute waste of money. It was this over-designed, overly complicated solution to a problem that I could just solve by putting a towel on the couch.
And there’s just so much on Amazon that you can be like, “I’m going to go down this rabbit hole and find this really specific, weird product that’s going to change my life.” And most of them don’t. Target doesn’t have quite that same volume of merchandise, so it prevented me from making some purchases like that. Which I’m really glad about.
But I needed to buy a printer because my printer broke, and I bought it from Target instead. And I was like, well, planet, did I do anything for you with that? Probably not. But here we are.
Corinne
I think for me, it was the the inability to just buy something really quickly from Amazon kind of made me question buying stuff in general a bit more. I feel like I’ve bought almost nothing aside from food, which we can also get into. It’s been really interesting.
Virginia
I agree. I didn’t buy nothing, but I definitely bought less.
I will also admit I was so panicked before we started, that I texted you on December 31 and was like, “I did my Last Supper order.” I panic-bought a whole bunch of random shit from Amazon on December 31. So also, I may not have felt as deprived, because I think I may need to do it longer.
Corinne
To be fair, I think I actually started quite a bit early because I was traveling.
Virginia
Oh, yeah. I’m coming up on a month now, and you’ve been doing it for six weeks probably.
Corinne
One thing that I wanted to look back on was how much I spent on Amazon last January, and the most and least amounts I spent at Amazon last year, 2024. Last January, I looked back, I spent $86 at Amazon.
Virginia
What!
Corinne
But wait! Then I looked at what month would have been the highest? And I was like, probably November, because that’s when I do a lot of shopping. It was $600!
Virginia
There we are.
Corinne
And when I look at that, I’m like, I have no idea what I spent that on. Like, I don’t know what that $86 was last January nor do I know exactly what the $600 was in November. I can only think of a couple of things.
Virginia
A heated mattress pad, I know is one of them.
Corinne
Yes, a heated mattress pad.
Virginia
Should we talk about what we were tempted to buy?
Corinne
It’s that category of stuff you were talking about. The first thing I wanted to buy was an adjustable phone stand.
Virginia
That is such an Amazon purchase.
Corinne
Yeah. And I probably would use that. But I have a phone tripod, which is the same thing. And I have a laptop stand. But I definitely would have bought that if I’d been using Amazon.
Virginia
That’s a good one.
I needed a hygrometer to check the humidity in my house, because I live in a frozen tundra and we’ve been sick. So I did buy a humidifier for my bedroom, not on Amazon. And then I realized I didn’t know whether it was doing anything, and that I needed a hygrometer to measure the humidity in my bedroom. And I acquired both of those from non-Amazon sources. But I was like, do other places even sell a hygrometer? Yes, Target sold one for like $11.
So that was one I got elsewhere. I got the printer elsewhere. I needed refills for my razor, bird seed I think I would have ordered off Amazon in the past, which is ridiculous. That’s so heavy to ship! I went to Tractor Supply Company and bought it in person, which is how you should do it.
A big one, though, that I had a stumbling block over was when we all got the flu. We were running low on masks, and I needed more masks because we were trying to mask around the sick person so we did not all catch it. And I was like, Oh, I’ve always only bought masks on Amazon, like, it’s the cheap way to get, like, a big pack. And I ended up buying a 10 pack from my local drugstore when I went to pick up our prescriptions. And it was fine, I’m glad to support the local business, but this was the more expensive way to do this. Masks are disposable. I do need more than ten in my life. So I still need to find a way to bulk order masks that’s not Amazon. I’m sure it exists, but there’s a mental load to solving these problems.
What else is on your list?
Corinne
A safety deposit box.
Virginia
I love how random these are. I love it.
Corinne
Adjustable phone stand was definitely from TikTok. Safety deposit box was because of the fires. I was like, “Oh shit, I do not have all my documents in a safety deposit box.” I would definitely just order that from Amazon. And now I’m like, I know I can get it in person, but I haven’t done it yet.
Virginia
Yes, well to be fair, we have a safety deposit box with our passports and stuff in it and I lost the key to it a long time ago, so it’s never locked. So in a fire, I have to remember to run it out holding it closed, because it’s like a suitcase. I always picture that I’m going to pick it up, but it’s all just going to fly everywhere.
Corinne
Might be time for you to get a new one.
Virginia
But, like, I’m not going to, right? Because it works. It’s a fireproof box. Maybe you just leave it? Is that the idea? Because it’ll survive the fire?
Corinne
Well, TikTok was saying a lot of them are only made to withstand like 10 minutes or something.
Virginia
Okay, so you do have to try to grab it.
Corinne
I think you’re supposed to.
Virginia
Okay, well, that’s definitely something I’m not going to remember in the moment of a crisis, but I’m glad we had this talk anyway.
Okay, so safety deposit box you still need to get.
Corinne
Yeah, I also wanted to buy a sewing gauge, which is a little ruler with things you can slide on it to hem stuff. I ended up getting that from Joann’s but, it did take longer. It wasn’t an immediate thing.
Virginia
So I have two things I didn’t end up buying, that I would have previously bought on Amazon.
One was I did the book event at Split Rock last weekend, and we wanted to have microphones, which the bookstore doesn’t have on hand. So I emailed with Tommy about what would be good microphones, he was like, “It’s hard to get this done in under a week off Amazon!”
So we ended up borrowing them from the library. And I was like, this is better. Nobody needed to spend $400 on a microphone that’s going to get used three times. Great community effort!
There is one that’s still haunting me though. This is a big one. I’m out of Marmite. This is an essential British condiment. I have it every morning on a bagel or toast, butter and Marmite. And it’s hard to find in American grocery stores. And I have Amazoned it in the past, and I’ve just been without it now, for like, three weeks.
Corinne
There has got to be somewhere else you can order that online.
Virginia
I know but it’s weirdly hard to find! Target doesn’t carry it. My local grocery stores don’t.
Corinne
Well and that’s the thing where then I feel like you’re buying from some website where you’re like, “Is this legit?”
Virginia
And is it also just Amazon, right? That’s the other thing. Amazon is a complicated web. I think for now, my solution is going to be to go to my mom’s this weekend and steal some Marmite from her. Because she always has it on hand. But I need a US hook up on the marmite.
Corinne
So here are my two fails.
One, I haven’t bought yet. But there’s a book that I want to read on my Kindle, and my library doesn’t have it. And so I at some point I am going to just buy it from the Kindle store. Like, I’ve been waiting because we’re doing this thing, but I’m like, I’m just going to buy it from the Kindle store.
Virginia
You can’t just buy a hard copy?
Corinne
I want to have it on my Kindle. I have a hard copy. It’s really thick. I want a Kindle copy.
Virginia
Oh, interesting. Okay.
Corinne
Then my other fail—I’ve also been doing no Whole Foods, since they are owned by Amazon. This was much harder for me. I’ve just probably gotten grocery shopping less. And I have been leaning heavily on Instacart. I have this thing where going to Whole Foods is a treat. Any other grocery shopping is a chore. And so if I have to go somewhere else, I’m like, “Oh, I’ll just Instacart.” But Instacart is also just so flawed! The shoppers are so bad. The other day, I was like, oh, I’m I’ll just Instacart it. And then they didn’t have any of the ingredients, Now I have to pay to cancel the order, it was just so frustrating.
And then my real fail was when my friend was visiting, we wanted to make a specific brisket recipe. We went to three grocery stores, and none of them had brisket. And I ended up just going to Whole Foods and buying it.
Virginia
I mean, that feels pretty mundane, on the level of fails. You’re not going to buy a brisket every week.
Corinne
I mean, it was fine. I made the decision, you know? I was like, ah, well, I tried. And everything else I didn’t buy from Whole Foods.
Virginia
You tried, and that is one specialty item that might be hard to find at other grocery stores. You tried them first, and then you ended up at Whole Foods for one thing. I feel like that’s not that big of a fail.
Corinne
Did you have a fail?
Virginia
I did have a fail. I forgot about Prime Video.
It’s on my children’s iPads, and on our TV, and is a way that they watch a lot of shows. And then I thought about it, and I was like, okay, I could have a conversation with them, and ask the kids, “Do you guys want to participate in the challenge?” But I didn’t do that. You can argue that I should have, but I failed.
And then the moment of real failure was last Saturday night, when Amy and I were leaving to go to our bookstore event for Fat Talk. We were leaving the children home alone with the middle schoolers were in charge, and the plan that we had sold them on, to ensure three hours of peace, was that they were going to stream Wicked.
So I had to purchase Wicked from Prime Video. So that’s $30 I spent on Prime Video. And it is also on Apple TV, but I didn’t have the login and we were trying to get out the door, and the kids are like, “Where’s Wicked?!” And I was just like, Yeah, fine. Fuck it. I’ll get it on Prime Video. Amy was like, “Do you want to log in as me? Because I already got it.” I was like, it’s fine. We’re going to want to have it.
Corinne
My friend was also like, “What if I buy the brisket?”
Virginia
Yeah, totally. So Wicked was my downfall. And I feel okay about that, because it wasn’t for me, it was for the kids. It was my babysitter for the evening. And I didn’t actually feel that guilty! Because I feel like overall, we’re really trying and being more thoughtful, and that’s the goal of the challenge, not to achieve Amazon perfection.
I mean, it did feel a little ironic that I spent $30 at Amazon before going to do an independent bookstore event. I didn’t love that. But I certainly spend more at that independent bookstore, so I’m going to trust that comes out in the wash.
So what do we think? Are we going to keep going? Are we going to do something different?
Corinne
I think what I’m going to do is probably continue to not have Prime and I think that will force me to be a little bit more selective about what I’m actually buying from Amazon.
I think I will probably go back to shopping from Whole Foods.
Virginia
I feel like having to change your grocery store is such an emotional thing. I don’t want you to have to do that.
Corinne
It’s not like I go to Whole Foods every week, sometimes I go to the regular grocery store here, which is Smith’s. And then when I do go to Smiths, I’m like, everything is so much cheaper. But I do sort of feel like sometimes Whole Foods has better produce and obviously, like, brisket.
Virginia
I don’t shop at Whole Foods only because there’s not one within an hour of me. If I had one, I’d probably shop there. And when I went to your Whole Foods with you last year, I was like, “Well this is a magical grocery experience.”
Corinne
It just feels more like a treat.
Virginia
Everything there was a treat! I mean, we were also buying treats while we were there, but I get it. That’s hard to give up.
I think I’m going to keep the app deleted off my phone. I didn’t miss that at all. That was totally fine. I like challenging myself to find things somewhere else. That part was good.
The two things I haven’t decided about are Prime Video, again, because that’s for my kids. I don’t really watch stuff on Prime Video, but it impacts my kids, so I have to talk to them about that.
And then… my protein powder. My workaround was that was in my December 31 Last Supper order. I got three so we would last through the month, and I wouldn’t be tempted. We go through so many, I don’t know how many we go through a month.
Corinne
What brand is it?
Virginia
It’s Orgain Chocolate Protein Powder. I mean, I’m sure I can get it somewhere else. I haven’t done the homework yet to figure that out. Because I do Subscribe and Save on it, I’m getting it pretty cheap on Amazon, which matters at the volume I go through it. I’m like, “Do I keep my Prime membership for one Subscribe and Save item?” That feels dumb. I recognize that.
So I need to solve the protein powder thing. And then I think I could let go of my Amazon Prime account. The kids could watch Prime Video on their dad’s prime account, but our household would otherwise be divested.
I guess what I’m also wondering is, and we have not done the reporting on this: If I’m mostly just switching over to shopping from Target or Instacart, other chain big box solutions, is it making a meaningful difference in the world? I suspect the answer to that is no. Because I do think all billionaires are evil. They’re all going to be problematic. We’re kidding ourselves to think that Target hasn’t done something egregious.
So it feels like the bigger work to do is figuring out how to divest more from this type of shopping as a category—convenience-based shopping, convenience-based online shopping. And I’m naming that that’s the big work to do. I don’t know that I’m ready to do that big work. I don’t know that I am quite ready to take that on, but I am thinking about that.
Corinne
It’s just interesting also to think about those kind of purchases like, the tray table or whatever. When you’re feeling that type of stress, of “I need to solve this problem,” how often do you actually have something that would work? Like, you have a towel or you have a sheet pan you could put down.
Virginia
My house so full of stuff. I have so many things.
Corinne
Yes. So it has just been interesting, at least for me, to think about just the immediacy. Do I need this in two days? Or do I just want it in two days? Like, yeah, I haven’t gotten a safety deposit box. I should get one. That’s something an adult should have. And also, like, it’s okay, but I don’t have one yet.
Virginia
Agreed. All of that is really challenging,
Corinne
Amazon creates this kind of fake urgency, where you’re like, I need to have this thing now.
Virginia
Yeah, yeah. And it’s something we talked about where instead of putting on your to do list, “I need to get a safety deposit box,” you would just go open the Prime app, get the safety deposit box. And it feels more efficient.
And it’s true, it’s going to take you at least another month to get the safety deposit box. I just know how I would be with that kind of chore.
Corinne
I was looking up where could I buy one locally? It’s like Walmart or Harbor Freight. Those are both also really problematic companies. But I was like, okay, here I go, I’m going to put on my shoes. I’m gonna go to Harbor Freight. And then I was like, no. I don’t want to do that. I’m not going to do that. I don’t need this right now.
Virginia
I’m not going to take an hour out of my day and solve this.
Corinne
It’s actually just not urgent. And same with the sewing gage hemming thing. I wanted to hem something. But I was like, “I don’t need to do this today. I’ll just do it the next time I go to Joann’s.”
Virginia
In some ways that’s relaxing to me. We were giving a lot of false urgency to things that weren’t crises. And solving things with shopping that didn’t need to be solved. So stepping back from that a little bit feels very clarifying.
I’m just like, okay, do I keep stepping back?
My goal for the next month should be solve the protein powder thing. Try to tie off these loose ends around my Amazon mess.
Corinne
Actually, one thing I saw I think on TikTok during this month was someone was saying, if you don’t have Prime, but you want to order from Amazon, the free shipping threshold is like, $35.
Virginia
Somebody said that in chat!
Corinne
You can just not have Prime and still get the free shipping. So it’s another thing where it’s like, if you just have enough patience…
Virginia
Wait until you’ve accumulated a list. And that’s probably a better use of Amazon.
Corinne
Three protein powders are probably $35.
Virginia
Oh, yeah, for sure. That would do it. That’s a great point.
Corinne
But is that better? I don’t know.
Virginia
It’s still shopping from Amazon,
Corinne
But at least you’re not giving them $120 a year just for the privilege to shop.
Virginia
That is fucked up. When we say it like that, that is some garbage.
Corinne
So I think I’m definitely at least going to cancel Prime. I will probably still shop at Whole Foods, and I may still shop at Amazon from time to time. But I’m going to try to at least get rid of Prime.
Virginia
Not have it be the default, knee jerk reaction. I think this is a big shift for both of us, and it feels like a great starting point. And maybe I work on Target next. But maybe I give myself some time before I feel like I have to keep adding on here.
As a suburban mom, my joke is that I’m always shopping at Target. Like, I’m never not placing a Target order? At least it feels that way.
Corinne
But it’s actually just kind of hard to find stuff on the Target app sometimes.
Virginia
Yeah, it’s not great, and that’s good. Adding that friction is good. I think for me, the waste point with Target is the fast fashion. It is one of the few places to get decent, affordably priced plus size clothing. But then you often end up doing the buying multiples of the thing, or buying the thing that doesn’t really hold up very long. It’s just very easy to waste money there on clothes.
Then if I go in person, the cute home stuff always gets me. I have less of a hard time with that on the app, because I can just not look at the Hearth and Home things.
Well, I’m proud of us. I think we did great. I think we did a super job with this challenge, and I hope other folks who are trying it, I want to hear how it went for them!
If people have other strategies they figured out, if anyone knows where I can get Marmite and protein powder, please drop that in the comments.
Butter
Virginia
Because it is fucking freezing in New York—it was zero degrees at the bus stop this morning—I am wearing all of my clothes all of the time, and my feet are not leaving my shearling, big buckle, Birkenstock clogs. They are my house shoes. I can make it out to the driveway, and that’s about it shoes. I get about two or three winters out of a pair. I wish they last a little longer. The shearling really mats down after a while and that they’re not as comfy, but I have a new pair this year, and, man, they’re saving me on these very cold days.
Corinne
That sounds so nice. Do you get the same size in the shearling ones? Or you have to size up?
Virginia
I do get the same size. Although you have to be prepared that when the shearling is it peak fluffiness, you’ll be like, “They’re too small.” And then it mats down a little bit, and it’s totally fine. You could go up a size, but they don’t do half sizes, and I don’t know that I’d want to go up a whole size. I would say, just tough out two weeks of them feeling a little snug.
Corinne
My Butter is a movie I saw, actually a couple months ago, but the movie is called Anora. Did you see it?
Virginia
No, I never see movies. That’s cute you thought I would have. I’ll Google it, though.
Corinne
Okay, it came out in 2024, and it’s about a sex worker who meets a young Russian guy who’s the son of a Russian oligarch, and it just kind of turns into this caper story, and it’s really funny. And it’s one of those movies where you laugh a lot, you also might cry, but I just left it feeling like, oh, I love humanity in all its flaws.
Virginia
Oh, I love a movie like that.
Corinne
Yeah. I would definitely recommend Anora if you haven’t seen it.
Virginia
The lead is someone who’s so familiar to me, I’m trying to figure out—
Corinne
She was in that show with Pamela Adlon.
Virginia
Oh, yes! She’s the daughter from Better Things.
Oh, I really want to see this now. Is it streaming somewhere other than Amazon Prime?
Corinne
I actually don’t even know if it’s streaming yet, because I saw it in the theaters, but I’m sure if it’s not yet, it will be soon.
Virginia
Okay, I’m really excited to see that when it eventually comes to my television, I will watch it, but not on Prime Video! At least, I hope not.
Well, this was great. Thank you for doing this challenge with me. I’m very proud of us for making it through and excited to hear what other folks think.
Corinne
Yeah, me, too.
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