On today’s episode of Hear Me Out… delusion is not the solution.

Welcome to a presidential election year, where everyone will surely be cool and normal. We know, we know — the prospect of dealing with electoral discourse is one that most of us aren’t looking forward to. But we’re here to prove that it’s possible to talk.

For Democrats, and liberals writ large, it’s hard to understand why anyone would want another Trump presidency; and it’s tempting to chalk that desire up to delusion, idiocy, or gullibility. But is that a good-faith assumption?

Author and professor Frank Buckley joins us to defend the 2024 Trump voter — as someone who earnestly believes the other side is worse.

If you have thoughts you want to share, or an idea for a topic we should tackle, you can email the show: hearmeout@slate.com

Podcast production by Maura Currie.

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