What if your life hasn’t turned out like you thought it would? When writer Heather Lanier’s daughter, Fiona, was born with a rare genetic syndrome, she learned that the world will not always see her beloved as good. In this conversation, Kate and Heather discuss how it’s okay that we are not summed up on bell curves. Perhaps the bodies in which we dwell are whole enough.

In this conversation, Kate and Heather discuss:

When our kids are considered “bad” by the world’s standards
The doctor who said two perfect words to Heather
How the divine sees everyone as good (and how we should seek to see through those same eyes)
The difference between capacity building and deficit building

This conversation originally aired in 2020, but it is one we return to again and again for its beauty, its honesty, its courage.

Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here or visiting katebowler.com/podcasts.

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Heather Lanier: Whole and Holy