Your Parenting Mojo - Respectful, research-based parenting ideas to help kids thrive 148: Is spanking a child really so bad?
Feb 6, 2022
49:14
"I was spanked and I turned out fine."
How many times have you heard this defense of spanking children? But what does the research tell us about spanking effectiveness, child discipline, and long-term consequences?
My guest, Professor Andrew Grogan-Kaylor from the University of Michigan, has extensively researched physical punishment and argues that spanking should be classified as an Adverse Childhood Experience (ACE)—a marker of severe trauma. When we examine spanking closely, we're discussing hitting another human being, something we'd never accept between adults. As Dr. Grogan-Kaylor points out, parents typically spank when frustrated or angry, making it virtually impossible to administer in a truly "controlled" way.
In the episode, we also discuss how, due to the way that a quirk in one researcher’s agenda aligned with changes in ethical rules governing experiments, that there’s actually scientific evidence from randomized controlled trials to support the efficacy of spanking at changing children’s behavior to make it acceptable to their parents! Now the rules have changed and wouldn’t permit spanking during an experiment, it isn’t possible to generate evidence against spanking. So advocates of spanking (and yes, there are some!) can honestly say that there is evidence of the highest quality in favor of spanking, and no evidence of that quality against it.
And of course we have to ask ourselves: is compliance what we really want? Our instinctive response to that question might be “Yes! I do want flipping compliance – and I want it now!” But I know many parents listening to the show have a goal to raise children who speak up when they see injustice, and who are internally motivated to do the right thing…and unfortunately focusing on making children’s behavior comply with our wishes works against that.
But that doesn’t mean the alternative is letting our child rule the roost. There are ways to get your needs met and also meet your child’s needs, without spanking, threatening to spank, punishing, giving Time Outs, withholding privileges, or any other tools like this.
The research clearly shows that spanking doesn't improve behavior—it actually makes it worse. Is spanking different from physical abuse? Dr. Grogan-Kaylor's research found that the effects of spanking and physical abuse on children are very similar. This challenges the idea that we can spank children without hurting them in the same way that physical abuse hurts them. Hitting, even when called "discipline," affects a child's developing brain and sense of safety in similar ways to abuse. Should spanking be considered an Adverse Childhood Experience (ACE)? Spanking affects a child's stress response system, and impacts their development. The long-term outcomes from spanking are similar to outcomes associated with established Adverse Childhood Experiences. Dr. Grogan-Kaylor makes a compelling case that spanking should join the list of recognized ACEs. What about parents who say "I was spanked and I turned out fine"? This is one of the most common defenses of spanking. Dr. Grogan-Kaylor explains how our understanding of child development has evolved over the last 50 years. Personal experiences, while valid, don't override the consistent findings from hundreds of scientific studies across diverse populations and cultures. At what age do parents typically spank children? You might be surprised by what the research shows. Dr. Grogan-Kaylor and Dr. Shawna Lee found that about a third of parents reported spanking their one-year-old children. One-year-olds cannot reliably remember and act on parent's instructions. Spanking one-year-olds is unlikely to lead to them remembering and acting on these instructions. Even at age two and three, remembering and acting on instructions is an emerging capability. What effective alternatives to spanking can parents use instead? The conversation doesn't just identify problems—it offers solutions! We offer evidence-based approaches to discipline that improve children's behavior while strengthening the parent-child relationship. Professor Grogan-Kaylor shares insights about why non-physical discipline methods work better for:
Dr. Grogan-Kaylor's comprehensive meta-analysis shows that spanking does not improve children's behavior.
Go from constant struggles and nagging to a new sense of calm & collaboration. I will teach you how to set limits, but we’ll also go waaaay beyond that to learn how to set fewer limits than you ever thought possible. Click the banner to learn more. Jump to highlights 01:33 Introducing today’s episode and featured guest 05:25 The definition of spanking 07:38 The age range advocated by some for spanking, ranging from two to 12 years old 09:20 The effectiveness of spanking 16:16 The critique of positive parenting research, particularly focusing on methodological fallacies outlined by Dr. Lazarle 22:24 The question of whether there might be an optimal level of spanking that leads to maximum compliance in children 24:40 How to handle defiant children who are not complying with milder disciplinary tactics 26:21 How to comprehend the overall impact of spanking on children 32:03 Dr. Diana Baumrind's surprising involvement in studies on spanking suggesting that authoritative parents, considered successful, spank their children 35:56 The legality of spanking and the absence of legal protection for children against physical punishment 38:11 Arguments against banning spanking, citing studies that suggest little evidence of parents adopting more effective disciplinary tactics after a ban 42:10 Potential cultural and racial differences in the use of spanking 44:09 Wrapping up the discussion References Afifi, T.O., Mota, N.P., Dasiewicz, P., MacMillan, H.L., & Sareen, J. (2012). Physical punishment and mental disorders: Results from a nationally representative US sample. Pediatrics 130(2), 184-192.
Afifi, T.O., Ford, D., Gershoff, E.T., Merrick, M., Grogan-Kaylor, A., Ports, K.A., MacMillan, H.L., Holden, G.W., Taylor, C.A., Lee, S.J., & Peters Bennet, R. (2017). Spanking and adult mental health impairment: The case for the designation of spanking as an adverse childhood experience. Child Abuse & Neglect 71, 24-31.
Baumrind, D., Larzelere, R.E., & Cowan, P.A. (2002). Ordinary physical punishment: Is it harmful? Comment on Gershoff (2002). Psychological Bulletin 128(4), 580-589.
Borduin Quetsch, L., Wallace, N.M., Herschell, A.D., & McNeil, C.B. (2015). Weighing in on the Time-Out controversy: An empirical perspective. The Clinical Psychologist 68(2), 4-19. Retrieved from https://www.incredibleyears.com/wp-content/uploads/Weighing-in-on-Time-Out-Borduin-et-al.pdf
Cuartas, J., Ward, K.P., Ma, J., & Grogan-Kaylor, A. (2020). Physical punishment and Colombian children and adolescents’ cognitive and behavioral outcomes. Journal of Applied Developmental Psychology 68, 101140.
Deater-Deckard, K., & Dodge, K.A. (1997). Externalizing behavior problems and discipline revisited: Nonlinear effects and variation by culture, context, and gender. Psychological Inquiry 8(3), 161-175.
Durrant, J.E., Trocme, N., Fallon, B., Milne, C., & Black, T. (2009). Protection of children from physical maltreatment in Canada: An evaluation of the Supreme Court’s definition of reasonable force. Journal of Aggression, Maltreatment & Trauma 18(1), 64-87.
Freeman, M., & Sanders, B.J. (2014). Can we conquer child abuse if we don’t outlaw physical chastisement of children? International Journal of Children’s Rights 22, 681-709.
Gershoff, E.T. (2010). More harm than good: A summary of scientific research on the intended and unintended effects of corporal punishment on children. Law & Contemporary Problems 73, 31-55.
Gershoff, E.T., Lansford, J.E., Sexton, H.R., Davis-Kean, P., & Sameroff, A.J. (2012). Longitudinal links between spanking and children’s externalizing behaviors in a national sample of White, Black, Hispanic, and Asian American families. Child Development 83(3), 838-843.
Gershoff, E.T., Goodman, G.S., Miller-Perrin, C.L., Holden, G.W., Jackson, Y., & Kazdin, A.E. (2018). The strength of the causal evidence against physical punishment of children and its implications for parents, psychologists, and policymakers. American Psychologist 73(5), 626-638.
Gershoff, E.T., & Font, S.A. (2016). Corporal punishment in U.S. public schools: Prevalence, disparities in use, and status in state and federal policy. Social Policy Report 30.
Gershoff, E.T., & Grogan-Kaylor, A. (2016). Race as a moderator of associations between spanking and child outcomes. Family Relations 65(3), 490-501.
Gershoff, E.T., & Grogan-Kaylor, A. (2016). Spanking and child outcomes: Old controversies and new meta-analyses. Journal of Family Psychology 30(4), 453.
Grogan-Kaylor, A. (2004). The effect of corporal punishment on antisocial behavior in children. Social Work Research, 28, 153–162.
Grogan-Kaylor, A. (2004). Corporal punishment and the growth trajectory of children’s antisocial behavior. Child Maltreatment 10(3), 283-292.
Heilmann, A., Mehay, A., Watt, R.G., Kelly, Y., Durant, J.E., van Turnhout, J., & Gershoff, E.T. (2021). Physical punishment and child outcomes: A narrative review of prospective studies. The Lancet. Retrieved from https://www.christian.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/Physical-punishment-and-child-outcomes-June-2021.pdf
Holden, G.W., Williamson, P.A., & Holland, G.W.O. (2014). Eavesdropping on the family: A pilot investigation of corporal punishment in the home. Journal of Family Psychology 28(3), 401-406.
Holden, G.W., Grogan-Kaylor, A., Durrant, J.E., & Gershoff, E. (2017). Researchers deserve a better critique: Response to Larzelere, Gunnoe, Roberts, and Ferguson (2017). Marriage & Family Review 53(5), 465-490.
Horn, I.B., Joseph, J.G., & Cheng, T.L. (2004). Nonabusive physical punishment and child behavior among African American children: A systematic review. Journal of the National Medical Association 96(9), 1162-1168.
Lansford, J.E., Wager, L.B., Bates, J.E., Pettit, G.S., & Dodge, K.A. (2012). Forms of spanking and children’s externalizing behaviors. Family Relations 61(2), 224-236.
Larzelere, R.E., Cox Jr., R.B., & Smith, G.L. (2010). Do nonphysical punishments reduce antisocial behavior more than spanking? A comparison using the strongest previous causal evidence against spanking. BMC Pediatrics 10(1), 1-17.
Larzelere, R.E., & Baumrind, D. (2010). Are spanking injunctions scientifically supported? Law & Contemporary Problems 73(2), 57-87.
Larzelere, R.E., Gunnoe, M.L., Roberts, M.W., & Ferguson, C.J. (2017). Children and parents deserve better parental discipline research: Critiquing the evidence for exclusively “positive” parenting. Marriage & Family Review 53(1), 24-35.
Larzelere, R.E., Knowles, S.J., Henry, C.S., & Ritchie, K.L. (2018). Immediate and long-term effectiveness of disciplinary tactics by type of toddler noncompliance. Parenting: Science and Practice 18, 141-171.
Larzelere, R.E., Ferguson, C.J., Gunnoe, M.L., & Roberts, M.W. (2019). The insufficiency of the evidence used to categorically oppose spanking and its implications for families and psychological science; Comment on Gershoff et al. (2018). American Psychologist 74(4), 497-499.
Larzelere, R.E., Gunnoe, M.J., Roberts, M.W., Lin, H., & Ferguson, C.J. (2020). Causal evidence for Exclusively Positive Parenting and for timeout: Rejoinder to Holden, Grogan-Kaylor, Durrant, and Gershoff (2017). Marriage & Family Review 56(4), 287-319.
Lee, S.J., Grogan-Kaylor, A., & Berger, L. (2014). Parental spanking of 1-year-old children and subsequent child protective services involvement. Child Abuse & Neglect 38(5), 875-883.
Lee, S.J., Pace, G.T., Ward, K.P., Grogan-Kaylor, A., & Ma, J. (2020). Household economic hardship as a moderator of the associations between maternal spanking and child externalizing behavior problems. Child Abuse & Neglect 107, 104573.
Ma, J., Grogan-Kaylor, A., & Lee, S.J. (2019). Does community violence exposure moderate the associations between maternal spanking and early childhood behavior problems? Aggressive Behavior 46, 210-219.
Ma, J., Han, Y., Grogan-Kaylor, A., Delva, J., & Castillo, M. (2012). Corporal punishment and youth externalizing behavior in Santiago, Chile. Child Abuse & Neglect, 36, 481–490.
Paolucci, E.O., & Violato, C. (2004). A meta-analysis of the published research on the affective, cognitive, and behavioral effects of corporal punishment. The Journal of Psychology 138(3), 197-221.
Ward, K.P., Lee, S.J., Pace, G.T., Grogan-Kaylor, A., & Ma, J. (2020). Attachment style and the association of spanking and child externalizing behavior. Academic Pediatrics 20(4), 501-507.
Questions this episode will answer
What does research show us about spanking children? Professor Grogan-Kaylor's meta-analysis examined five decades of research covering over 160,000 children. He found consistent evidence that spanking is associated with increased:- Aggression
- Antisocial behavior
- Mental health problems
- Cognitive difficulties.
The research clearly shows that spanking doesn't improve behavior—it actually makes it worse. Is spanking different from physical abuse? Dr. Grogan-Kaylor's research found that the effects of spanking and physical abuse on children are very similar. This challenges the idea that we can spank children without hurting them in the same way that physical abuse hurts them. Hitting, even when called "discipline," affects a child's developing brain and sense of safety in similar ways to abuse. Should spanking be considered an Adverse Childhood Experience (ACE)? Spanking affects a child's stress response system, and impacts their development. The long-term outcomes from spanking are similar to outcomes associated with established Adverse Childhood Experiences. Dr. Grogan-Kaylor makes a compelling case that spanking should join the list of recognized ACEs. What about parents who say "I was spanked and I turned out fine"? This is one of the most common defenses of spanking. Dr. Grogan-Kaylor explains how our understanding of child development has evolved over the last 50 years. Personal experiences, while valid, don't override the consistent findings from hundreds of scientific studies across diverse populations and cultures. At what age do parents typically spank children? You might be surprised by what the research shows. Dr. Grogan-Kaylor and Dr. Shawna Lee found that about a third of parents reported spanking their one-year-old children. One-year-olds cannot reliably remember and act on parent's instructions. Spanking one-year-olds is unlikely to lead to them remembering and acting on these instructions. Even at age two and three, remembering and acting on instructions is an emerging capability. What effective alternatives to spanking can parents use instead? The conversation doesn't just identify problems—it offers solutions! We offer evidence-based approaches to discipline that improve children's behavior while strengthening the parent-child relationship. Professor Grogan-Kaylor shares insights about why non-physical discipline methods work better for:
- Teaching children appropriate behavior;
- Supporting the development of emotion regulation;
- Developing problem-solving skills.
What you'll learn in this episode
- Physical punishment like spanking is considered harmful to children's development. Even "normal" spanking shows negative outcomes in research studies spanning five decades.
- The scientific evidence showing how spanking increases children's:
- Aggression
- Antisocial behavior
- Mental health problems.
Dr. Grogan-Kaylor's comprehensive meta-analysis shows that spanking does not improve children's behavior.
- How spanking affects children across different cultures, socioeconomic backgrounds, and family situations
- Why spanking should be considered an Adverse Childhood Experience (ACE). This would put it in the same category as other forms of harmful trauma.
- The connection between spanking and increased risk for long-term behavior problems. This can affect a child's future relationships.
- Effective parenting strategies that build positive relationships. This teaches children appropriate behavior - without resorting to physical discipline
- Why the common defense "I was spanked and I turned out fine" misses important context about child development and trauma
Go from constant struggles and nagging to a new sense of calm & collaboration. I will teach you how to set limits, but we’ll also go waaaay beyond that to learn how to set fewer limits than you ever thought possible. Click the banner to learn more. Jump to highlights 01:33 Introducing today’s episode and featured guest 05:25 The definition of spanking 07:38 The age range advocated by some for spanking, ranging from two to 12 years old 09:20 The effectiveness of spanking 16:16 The critique of positive parenting research, particularly focusing on methodological fallacies outlined by Dr. Lazarle 22:24 The question of whether there might be an optimal level of spanking that leads to maximum compliance in children 24:40 How to handle defiant children who are not complying with milder disciplinary tactics 26:21 How to comprehend the overall impact of spanking on children 32:03 Dr. Diana Baumrind's surprising involvement in studies on spanking suggesting that authoritative parents, considered successful, spank their children 35:56 The legality of spanking and the absence of legal protection for children against physical punishment 38:11 Arguments against banning spanking, citing studies that suggest little evidence of parents adopting more effective disciplinary tactics after a ban 42:10 Potential cultural and racial differences in the use of spanking 44:09 Wrapping up the discussion References Afifi, T.O., Mota, N.P., Dasiewicz, P., MacMillan, H.L., & Sareen, J. (2012). Physical punishment and mental disorders: Results from a nationally representative US sample. Pediatrics 130(2), 184-192.
Afifi, T.O., Ford, D., Gershoff, E.T., Merrick, M., Grogan-Kaylor, A., Ports, K.A., MacMillan, H.L., Holden, G.W., Taylor, C.A., Lee, S.J., & Peters Bennet, R. (2017). Spanking and adult mental health impairment: The case for the designation of spanking as an adverse childhood experience. Child Abuse & Neglect 71, 24-31.
Baumrind, D., Larzelere, R.E., & Cowan, P.A. (2002). Ordinary physical punishment: Is it harmful? Comment on Gershoff (2002). Psychological Bulletin 128(4), 580-589.
Borduin Quetsch, L., Wallace, N.M., Herschell, A.D., & McNeil, C.B. (2015). Weighing in on the Time-Out controversy: An empirical perspective. The Clinical Psychologist 68(2), 4-19. Retrieved from https://www.incredibleyears.com/wp-content/uploads/Weighing-in-on-Time-Out-Borduin-et-al.pdf
Cuartas, J., Ward, K.P., Ma, J., & Grogan-Kaylor, A. (2020). Physical punishment and Colombian children and adolescents’ cognitive and behavioral outcomes. Journal of Applied Developmental Psychology 68, 101140.
Deater-Deckard, K., & Dodge, K.A. (1997). Externalizing behavior problems and discipline revisited: Nonlinear effects and variation by culture, context, and gender. Psychological Inquiry 8(3), 161-175.
Durrant, J.E., Trocme, N., Fallon, B., Milne, C., & Black, T. (2009). Protection of children from physical maltreatment in Canada: An evaluation of the Supreme Court’s definition of reasonable force. Journal of Aggression, Maltreatment & Trauma 18(1), 64-87.
Freeman, M., & Sanders, B.J. (2014). Can we conquer child abuse if we don’t outlaw physical chastisement of children? International Journal of Children’s Rights 22, 681-709.
Gershoff, E.T. (2010). More harm than good: A summary of scientific research on the intended and unintended effects of corporal punishment on children. Law & Contemporary Problems 73, 31-55.
Gershoff, E.T., Lansford, J.E., Sexton, H.R., Davis-Kean, P., & Sameroff, A.J. (2012). Longitudinal links between spanking and children’s externalizing behaviors in a national sample of White, Black, Hispanic, and Asian American families. Child Development 83(3), 838-843.
Gershoff, E.T., Goodman, G.S., Miller-Perrin, C.L., Holden, G.W., Jackson, Y., & Kazdin, A.E. (2018). The strength of the causal evidence against physical punishment of children and its implications for parents, psychologists, and policymakers. American Psychologist 73(5), 626-638.
Gershoff, E.T., & Font, S.A. (2016). Corporal punishment in U.S. public schools: Prevalence, disparities in use, and status in state and federal policy. Social Policy Report 30.
Gershoff, E.T., & Grogan-Kaylor, A. (2016). Race as a moderator of associations between spanking and child outcomes. Family Relations 65(3), 490-501.
Gershoff, E.T., & Grogan-Kaylor, A. (2016). Spanking and child outcomes: Old controversies and new meta-analyses. Journal of Family Psychology 30(4), 453.
Grogan-Kaylor, A. (2004). The effect of corporal punishment on antisocial behavior in children. Social Work Research, 28, 153–162.
Grogan-Kaylor, A. (2004). Corporal punishment and the growth trajectory of children’s antisocial behavior. Child Maltreatment 10(3), 283-292.
Heilmann, A., Mehay, A., Watt, R.G., Kelly, Y., Durant, J.E., van Turnhout, J., & Gershoff, E.T. (2021). Physical punishment and child outcomes: A narrative review of prospective studies. The Lancet. Retrieved from https://www.christian.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/Physical-punishment-and-child-outcomes-June-2021.pdf
Holden, G.W., Williamson, P.A., & Holland, G.W.O. (2014). Eavesdropping on the family: A pilot investigation of corporal punishment in the home. Journal of Family Psychology 28(3), 401-406.
Holden, G.W., Grogan-Kaylor, A., Durrant, J.E., & Gershoff, E. (2017). Researchers deserve a better critique: Response to Larzelere, Gunnoe, Roberts, and Ferguson (2017). Marriage & Family Review 53(5), 465-490.
Horn, I.B., Joseph, J.G., & Cheng, T.L. (2004). Nonabusive physical punishment and child behavior among African American children: A systematic review. Journal of the National Medical Association 96(9), 1162-1168.
Lansford, J.E., Wager, L.B., Bates, J.E., Pettit, G.S., & Dodge, K.A. (2012). Forms of spanking and children’s externalizing behaviors. Family Relations 61(2), 224-236.
Larzelere, R.E., Cox Jr., R.B., & Smith, G.L. (2010). Do nonphysical punishments reduce antisocial behavior more than spanking? A comparison using the strongest previous causal evidence against spanking. BMC Pediatrics 10(1), 1-17.
Larzelere, R.E., & Baumrind, D. (2010). Are spanking injunctions scientifically supported? Law & Contemporary Problems 73(2), 57-87.
Larzelere, R.E., Gunnoe, M.L., Roberts, M.W., & Ferguson, C.J. (2017). Children and parents deserve better parental discipline research: Critiquing the evidence for exclusively “positive” parenting. Marriage & Family Review 53(1), 24-35.
Larzelere, R.E., Knowles, S.J., Henry, C.S., & Ritchie, K.L. (2018). Immediate and long-term effectiveness of disciplinary tactics by type of toddler noncompliance. Parenting: Science and Practice 18, 141-171.
Larzelere, R.E., Ferguson, C.J., Gunnoe, M.L., & Roberts, M.W. (2019). The insufficiency of the evidence used to categorically oppose spanking and its implications for families and psychological science; Comment on Gershoff et al. (2018). American Psychologist 74(4), 497-499.
Larzelere, R.E., Gunnoe, M.J., Roberts, M.W., Lin, H., & Ferguson, C.J. (2020). Causal evidence for Exclusively Positive Parenting and for timeout: Rejoinder to Holden, Grogan-Kaylor, Durrant, and Gershoff (2017). Marriage & Family Review 56(4), 287-319.
Lee, S.J., Grogan-Kaylor, A., & Berger, L. (2014). Parental spanking of 1-year-old children and subsequent child protective services involvement. Child Abuse & Neglect 38(5), 875-883.
Lee, S.J., Pace, G.T., Ward, K.P., Grogan-Kaylor, A., & Ma, J. (2020). Household economic hardship as a moderator of the associations between maternal spanking and child externalizing behavior problems. Child Abuse & Neglect 107, 104573.
Ma, J., Grogan-Kaylor, A., & Lee, S.J. (2019). Does community violence exposure moderate the associations between maternal spanking and early childhood behavior problems? Aggressive Behavior 46, 210-219.
Ma, J., Han, Y., Grogan-Kaylor, A., Delva, J., & Castillo, M. (2012). Corporal punishment and youth externalizing behavior in Santiago, Chile. Child Abuse & Neglect, 36, 481–490.
Paolucci, E.O., & Violato, C. (2004). A meta-analysis of the published research on the affective, cognitive, and behavioral effects of corporal punishment. The Journal of Psychology 138(3), 197-221.
Ward, K.P., Lee, S.J., Pace, G.T., Grogan-Kaylor, A., & Ma, J. (2020). Attachment style and the association of spanking and child externalizing behavior. Academic Pediatrics 20(4), 501-507.