With Ron DeSantis embracing an aggressively illiberal agenda of cultural reaction, how worried should we be? This week on the podcast, The New Republic's Osita Nwanevu—one of the most original leftist thinkers working today—joined us to debate the future of the Republican Party and the dangers of 2024. Very quickly, the conversation morphed into a spirited exchange on whether it's American institutions—or the madness of crowds—that explains the GOP's sharp turn to the right on questions of culture and identity.

Osita argues that the GOP as an institution is dangerous. It has taken advantage of existing political institutions to promote anti-democratic values and rule as a minoritarian party even as it claims to represent the views and grievances of a sometimes silent majority. We also discuss whether Republican messaging against "wokeness" is truly a winning issue with voters—and what this says for prospects of an outright GOP victory in 2024.  

(And, yes: we also touched on Osita's preference that the U.S. Constitution be abolished.)