Guests Binya Koatz and daph ben david discuss Shabbatean trans love poetry in Ladino, trancestors in the Torah, and analysis on Frankism. They explore Shabbatai's gender complexity and the revolutionary shifts in Judaism caused by the Frankists. They also talk about Shabbatai's enduring status as a queer icon and share details about pronunciation, a hotline, and Patreon support.
The Ladino liturgical poetry celebrating Shabbatai's gender fluidity and queerness challenges traditional narratives and offers a fresh perspective on the queer iconography of Shabbatai.
The discovery of Ladino poetry highlighting Shabbatai's gender fluidity and referencing biblical figures and Kabbalistic concepts allows for the reclamation of hidden queer histories within the tradition.
Deep dives
Shabbatai's Gender Fluidity and Queer Icon Status
In this podcast episode, the hosts discuss the discovery of Ladino liturgical poetry that celebrates Shabbatai's gender fluidity and queerness. The poems depict Shabbatai as both masculine and feminine, with references to being secretly of the female sex and possessing an androgynous nature. The poems highlight Shabbatai's role as a transgressor of gender norms and emphasize the significance of their gender journey within their messianic identity. The hosts reflect on the audacity and radicalism of Shabbatai's overturning of societal norms, drawing parallels to contemporary efforts of reclaiming the radicality of Judaism. This exploration of Shabbatai's gender and mysticism challenges traditional narratives and offers a fresh perspective on the queer iconography of Shabbatai.
The Treasure of Ladino Poetry
The hosts discuss the discovery of a book of Ladino poetry, titled 'The Book of Hymns and Prayers,' written in Saloniki, Greece, in the late 1600s or early 1700s by a Shabbatai sect. The poetry celebrates Shabbatai's gender fluidity, using terms like 'macho' and 'fembra' to describe their embodiment of both masculine and feminine qualities. The poems also draw connections to biblical figures, such as Esther, Abraham, Jacob, and Sara, and reference Kabbalistic concepts and numerology. The hosts express their excitement about studying Ladino and finding trans poetry that reclaims the tradition and unearths hidden queer histories.
Shabbatai and the Radicality of Overturning
The hosts delve into the significance of Shabbatai's audacity to challenge societal norms and overturn traditional Judaism. They reflect on the tension between upturning long-established customs and the possibility of unintentionally discarding important aspects of the tradition. They acknowledge the importance of critical engagement with our ancestral legacy and the potential for reclaiming radicality within our tradition. The hosts also explore Shabbatai's iconic nature, comparing their grand persona to that of queer celebrities and highlighting their ability to captivate and fascinate people with their dramatic life story.
Closing Thoughts and Additional Discoveries
The hosts share their enthusiasm for the Ladino poetry and the wealth of references to Shabbatai's transness and queerness found in these texts. They mention another book of compilations attributed to Jacob Frank that reinforces the trans femininity of Shabbatai. They discuss the ongoing exploration of Shabbatai's gender identity, acknowledging the complexity of understanding this historical figure's relationship to gender and the various interpretations and possibilities that arise from their legacy.
In our thrilling finale, guests Binya Koatz and daph ben david dazzle us with Shabbatean trans love poetry in Ladino, trancestors in the Torah and little bit of analysis on Frankism. Visit our website to ask us questions at xaihowareyou.com and call or Text the Talmud Hotline at 401-484-1619 and leave us a voicemail! Support us on patreon at patreon.com/xaihowareyou. Follow us on twitter @xaihowareyou and @miss_figured. Music by Ben Schreiber.
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