Strangers & Solidarity – Hebrews 13:1-8, 15-16

We’re going back to our roots and queering scripture for this week’s episode! We look at Hebrews 13:1-8, 15-16 where we explore themes of faith, community, and the importance of engaging with marginalized groups, particularly those who are incarcerated. We reflect on the radical message of this passage, and how it emphasizes the call to hospitality and solidarity. We also discuss the complexities of building relationships with those who are different from us, but the absolute necessity of doing so. We must be willing to be vulnerable, trust others, and practice embodied love in our interactions with others.

 

Takeaways

• The lectionary provides a framework for exploring faith and community.
• Hospitality is a divine encounter that can change lives.
• Solidarity with the incarcerated requires deep empathy and understanding.
• Trust and vulnerability are essential in building relationships.
• Engaging with marginalized communities can be uncomfortable but necessary.
• Solidarity is not just about charity; it’s about deep relationships.
• Practicing love means showing up for others in tangible ways.
• The messiness of life is part of the journey of faith.
• We must be willing to step outside our comfort zones.
• Engagement with others can lead to transformative experiences.

 

Chapters

(02:43) Radical Hospitality and the Divine in Strangers

(05:29) Solidarity with the Incarcerated: A Call to Action

(08:04) Practicing Vulnerability and Trust in Community

(10:47) The Cost of Solidarity: Embracing Messiness

(13:48) Transformative Relationships: Beyond Charity

(16:42) Engaging with the Uncomfortable: A Journey of Faith

 

Resources:

• Join our online community at  Sanctuary Collective Community 

 

If you want to support the Patreon and help keep the podcast up and running, you can learn more and pledge your support at patreon.com/queertheology

 

This transcript was generated by AI and may contain errors or omissions.

(9s):
Welcome to the Queer Theology Podcast. I’m Brian G Murphy. And I’m father Shannon, T l Kearns. We’re the co-founders of Queer Theology dot com and your hosts from Genesis, revelation. The Bible declares good news to LGBTQ plus people, and we want to show you how Tuning each week on Sunday for conversations about Christianity, queerness and transness, and how they can enrich one another. We’re glad you’re here. Hello. Hello. Hello. Today is Sunday, August 30th, and the reason why that date matters is because we are kicking it old school style here in the podcast, and we’re gonna get back to our roots and queer, one of the passage, us from this week’s lectionary. If you have been a listener for only the past few years, you might not know that for the first like eight or so years, we went through the Christian Lectionary every week for those eight, eight years.

(56s):
So it’s a three year cycle. So we went through it almost entirely three times. Obviously we had a lot aqua to do, so we’ve been doing topics and deeper dives into whole books and interviews and things like that for the past few years. But we just really love the Bible. And there’s something about pulling up the week and seeing what speaks to us. This is also practice that Jews do through the weekly Torah portion. They, they, we go through the first five books of the Bible, the, the Torah, the first five books, ofm, Moses, Genesis, EXUS, Leviticus, numbers, and Deuteronomy on a yearly cycle. And so there’s something about like, it’s, it’s kinda like akin to pulling tarot cards where you just sort of, you pull the card and you see what comes up for you in that moment. And so this week we’re looking at Hebrews 13, one through eight, 15 through 16.

(1m 41s):
We’ll be reading from the common English Bible as is our practice. Keep loving each other like family. Don’t neglect to open up your homes to guests because by doing this, some have been hosts to angels without knowing it. Remember prisoners as if you were in prison with them and people who are mistreated as if you were in their place. Marriage must be honored in every respect with no cheating on the relationship because God will judge the sexually immoral person and the person who commits adultery your way of life should be free from the love of money, and you should be content with what you have. After all, he has said, I will never leave you or abandon you. This is why we can confidently say the Lord is my helper And I won’t be afraid. What can people do to me? Remember your leaders who spoke God’s word to you, imitate their faith as you consider the way their lives turned out.

(2m 26s):
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. So let’s continually offer up a sacrifice of praise through him, which is the fruit from our lips that confess his name. Don’t forget to do good and to share what you have because God is pleased with these kinds of sacrifices. Oh man, this is so, so, so rich. I was like giggling because we, I, I have a book coming out in at this point, oh my God, like 18 days, 19 days. Ian Monogamy comes out on September 18th, and when we were looking, we were like, let’s just, it’s been a minute. Let’s look at the LEC to see if we might wanna do something of that.

(3m 6s):
And I, I don’t talk about this passage specifically in my book, but I do have a series of graphics for Instagram planned to promote the book that are a little bit spicy. So if you’re interested in some spicy Bible takes, follow me over at this is BGM on Instagram. And, and this is one of the passage us that I grabbed as around hospitality of Strangers. And in particular, like what, what stuck out to me was this bit about that like, because if you would like neglect to open up your house, you, you might miss out on hosting angels without knowing it. And so there’s like this something about angels, guests being angels, guests being God, seeing God in this stranger that really, that really sort of captured my attention.

(3m 57s):
And I have lots of sex positive and non-monogamous and polyamorous perspectives on that, but that I can, that I can certainly dive into. But I, I know also Shay, when I said, oh, oh, this passage jumps out at me, you also said that you were curious about this passage. So what are some of the things that come up for you? Yeah, I mean I, I’ve been doing a lot of work in, in regards to folks who are incarcerated lately. And so this Hebrews 13, three remember prisoners as if you were in prison with them really jumped out at me. You know, I think that’s a, it’s a verse on a lot of folks use in their kind of quote unquote prison ministry.

(4m 37s):
But I think about how often or how, how rarely I hear more progressive folks talk about this verse and, and really hold to that. And, And I, I, I was, I was actually thinking the other day about how how distant the lives of folks who are incarcerated are for so many people, particularly in like white, mainline more progressive traditions. Obviously that is not the case across the board, but in the, in many of the churches that I’ve been in, that has been the case.

(5m 18s):
Or if it wasn’t the case, the people who did have loved ones who were incarcerated or friends who were incarcerated, like didn’t really talk about that because they didn’t feel like they could or they didn’t feel like anyone could understand. Or maybe there was shame around that. And so I I, I’m just really struck by this, this line and, and especially like what it would do if we actually took it seriously to remember prisoners as if you were in prison with them. I mean, that’s a really strong statement of Solidarity. And I was also struck by, you know, I, I know that, I know in my experience, not a lot of people read out of Hebrews or spend a lot of time with this book.

(6m 9s):
’cause I think it is a little bit of a quirky book, but I, I was just really struck by like how kind of radical this whole text is minus the like weird purity culture thing in the middle, but like, engage in radical hospitality, love each other, like family, remember prisoners and people who are mistreated, don’t love money. Be content with what you have. Like pay attention to the fruit of, of your leaders, not just like doing whatever they say, but like, consider the way that their lives turned out.

(6m 57s):
Don’t forget to do good, right? Like all of these, share what you have. Yeah. Share what you have. And like I, it just, I’ve been spending a lot of time around evangelicals and it just like boggles my mind that like they will pull out the sexual immorality verse and ignore everything else. And it’s like y’all, it says, it says these things, not so, Not so literalist now, are we? Yeah, it’s, it’s just, it’s just wild to me. But, but again, at the same, at the same token, like as I’m saying all of this, I’m also talking about how so many progressive folks like ignore the, remember those who are in prison.

(7m 37s):
And so I think Right, There is a sense of all of us pick and choose, but at least like, let’s be honest about what we’re picking and choosing and why we’re doing it. Because I think that like, that it’s that lack of honesty and transparency about how we’re engaging with the text, that is what makes it so dangerous to like pick and choose and, and, and enter into those kinds of conversations. Yeah, I I’m thinking about what you were saying about how for many people in white progressive churches that like people in prison feels like there’s at least one layer removed from that and it’s, I dunno, maybe it’s scary or it’s uncertainly dunno where to begin.

(8m 24s):
And I, I’m, I’m remembering our conversation a few weeks go about like rural God, city God. And one of the things that living in New York City has done for me is it like puts me in close proximity to lots of different types of people. And so there’s, I’m just sort of less immediately frightened by quote unquote the other, which is not to say that people in New York City like love prisoners and have good relationships with them, you could still have all sorts of shitty politics or theology around, around prison. And also I think that like, there’s something here about welcome and, and prisoners and even like these and sharing and these good fruits that there, that I think that we like really need to start practicing A getting comfortable being uncomfortable, and b, not being afraid of people who are different than us and people then are other than us.

(9m 25s):
And so, like in my book, Laiya Monogamy, I talked a little bit about like some ways that you might start do that. And I, And I, like, I don’t think that you have to have sex with Strangers to, to, to practice. But I, but what I will say is that like there is like an incredible amount of trust that anyone having a one night stand puts in the other person, but like in particular, right? Like queer men, we’re making lots of generalizations here, but like, there’s a culture of queer men having one night stands. We use Grindr, we use other apps to, to, to find hookups and then to just sort of like, I don’t, I don’t, sometimes I don’t even know your name and I’m inviting you over into my house. I’m gonna get totally naked with you. That’s incredibly vulnerable. And like if I can practice being trusting and vulnerable enough to have a one night stand, like certainly I can be, I can also practice tru being trusting and vulnerable enough to have a conversation with a person asking for money or to have a conversation or like become a pen pal with a prisoner or to get involved in like a local food kitchen that like these things take work and they’re gonna be outside of our comfort zone.

(10m 33s):
And also, like, one of the things that I recommend in my book is like if you can find one area where you’ve already practiced being a little bit uncomfortable or trusting in someone else a little bit more like that, they then you realize that that is a muscle that you can develop. And so then like where might you then also point yourself and try to develop or where you aren’t as comfortable or where you, your, your focus might need a little bit more attention. And I think, you know, all of us naturally have things that we’re more interested in, things that come easier to us. And I think that that, you know, we can’t, we can’t be doing all things all the time. We would be like, there’s just not enough time or energy in the day.

(11m 15s):
So we do, there is some amount of narrowing your focus that you have to do in order to like really do good work. And, and one of the things that I talk about in my book is to like make sure that that is like an intentional choice rather than I fall into the things that come easiest to me. I fall into the things that benefit me the most. I fall into the things that support people who look like me. I, I focus on the things that my, are important to my parents or that are important to, you know, the, the church that I’ve always gone gone to. And it, it might behoove us all to sort of look to see like, well, where are the spots that we’re not paying as much attention? And not that we didn’t have to become like full-time activists for those causes, but is there some learning that we could do around that?

(11m 58s):
Is there some sigma boosting that we could do around that? Is there some support we could offer in some way? Like might we pay like just a little bit more attention to some of those areas so that we can really, because I think like all parts of this passage from hospitality to being consolidated with prisoners to, I think also like even this like marish thing, like I think there is something that we could reclaim there that like they’re all sort of important ideals and like, I don’t want us to be single issue people of faith. And this can be like Audrey Lorde talks about that you can’t be single issue voters because we don’t live single issue lives And I don’t, I don’t want to fall into being a single issue person of faith.

(12m 39s):
Yeah. I I think the other thing that stuck out to me along with everything that you were saying is also like having a better understanding and practice of what Solidarity actually means and looks like. Because I, I think that along with getting uncomfortable, like Solidarity is also uncomfortable, right? Yeah. And so many of us, I I think again, speaking in general, gen generalities, gen generalities, there We go. Generalities. So many of us speaking in generalities, you know, have been taught about charity, right? Like donate, we give money, we volunteer somewhere, we quote unquote give back or whatever.

(13m 29s):
And, and again, that like keeps us at a remove. And, And I think that what this passage is calling us to is actually like not being at a remove, right? Welcoming the stranger into your home, remembering those in prison as if you also were in prison. And like, if we actually took that seriously. I, I think that changes our posture and it’s not just about, oh, I give money when I can. Yeah. Or I volunteer once a week. It’s like, no, I actually reorient my life so that I’m in deep relationship with people relationship and that then changes how I show up in the world.

(14m 12s):
And that is deeply uncomfortable, right? Because I think it’s really, it’s easier to think about like, how might I give to the less fortunate while also just then going back to my house. It’s a, it’s a lot different to think about like, oh, what does it mean to actually like be friends or family with someone who’s in prison? What does it mean to actually invite someone over to my house that I don’t know that well or that is really different than me? Like, what does it mean to share meals with people not from, you know, a soup kitchen counter where I’m on one side serving and they’re on the other side eating.

(14m 56s):
Like, what does it mean to actually break bread together? I think that those are the things that are, that we need to be practicing and that if we start to practice that, that like, that will radically change our lives. And that is very, very scary, I think. And also I think it’s going to be the thing that is gonna be necessary in the coming moments. Yes. Yes. And, And I like, that’s also like practicable. And so like, I think I sometimes take for granted that I, in my early twenties got like really intense civil disobedience, non-violence means training through from civil rights leaders. And that that really shaped me and that, that I was then thrown into activism in, in New York City.

(15m 36s):
And so like, this is like not work that you, one, I think the key Takeaways from that time of my life was like, this is like not work that you do on your own. And so there are already, wherever you live, there are people maybe not depending if you, if you live in a small town, like maybe not a five minute drive away, but like somewhat accessible to you, I’m sure that there are people that are organizing in some way. And so like if you need to get plugged into other folks to learn from them, like how do I like resist the police document, the police, like what are some places that I like might intermix my life with people who are different than me? Because like to your point earlier, it’s not about just like, oh, I give money or I volunteer and like, that’s enough.

(16m 19s):
But like, when I’m thinking about Solidarity, it’s like how do I use my body? Who am I friends with? Like where do I move to or do I not move to like if I have kids, like where do I send my, like kids to school, how do I like spend my money? Not just like, do I do, I give away a little bit when it feels convenient, but like, like a friend needs a new car, so I’m gonna, and I’ve got some extra cash, so I’m gonna like, I’m gonna shell it a thousand dollars and other friend’s gonna show out a thousand dollars somebody, I’m gonna show it a thousand dollars. And I’m like, buy this person a new car, or I’m gonna open up the doors to my house and house someone. Like sometimes Solidarity is uncomfortable and sometimes Solidarity costs something.

(17m 8s):
And like, and also it’s the right thing to do. And also like, you meet, you meet God there, you know? And, And I think too that there’s something about like, it’s often messy, right? Like you, there’s no guarantees that the person you’re supporting that just got out of prison like is gonna not go back. Right. And there’s, there’s no chance that there, there’s no like guarantees that the person you open up your house to like, might not steal something from you. Right. They might not, but like that could happen. And so, And I, I think that there is a a also a, a cost to weighing of like, it, this isn’t about perfection and it’s not about it.

(17m 58s):
It’s not about the shiny like, I don’t know, pamphlet picture that you get to post on your social media or your nonprofits website. Like sometimes relationships are messy and sometimes like you are gonna be the one that fails and lets someone down and does something that’s hurtful or harmful and like, that’s all part of it. Right. And I, And I think that, I don’t know, I, I think too often we, I get caught up in this idea of it has to be perfect before I can engage or like, if there’s a chance that it’s not gonna be perfect, I don’t wanna do it. And, and like we just don’t have time to be waiting for the perfect anymore.

(18m 42s):
Like I think we have to, we have to engage in, in whatever ways we can. And like you said, like not alone, like we do this in community and we do this, we do this as a practice and you don’t have to open your doors to a complete stranger tonight. Right. Like, that’s probably not the best thing for you to do. Yeah. But like, what are the ways that you can start on that journey of, of being in Solidarity in new ways? Like what is, what is the thing that you could do today to start opening you up to that journey of learning? Yeah. And also like, it might be that you open up your doors to a complete stranger tonight. You know, I’m, I’m thinking like, when I was in, in my twenties, my, like two of my good friends And I like, through these set of circumstances, we ended up like at a cafe.

(19m 29s):
Like one of them was in a, in a group program. We were all at dinner afterwards with people from the group. And the person who ended up at our table, we were like all chatting and hanging out and like, it came up like he like was planning on sleeping on the subway that night because he didn’t have stable housing. And one of my friends was like, no, like, you’re coming. Like, I just met you an hour ago at the start of dinner and like, you’re gonna come sleep at my place Sunday if you, if you would like a place to stay. Like, I’m gonna open up our couch to you. And like he ends up doing that. And over the course of the next, like many years, like, lived there for a while, lived with me for a while. At some point I ended up moving into that, that same apartment. And he moved away and then he moved back and we were all roommates together and like we’ve all, we’ve all since left in New York City and also like, we all still keep in touch.

(20m 12s):
And he became like a lifelong friend that I haven’t seen in probably a decade, but that we like text somewhat regularly. And there was times there where like it was uncomfortable and like we were, I was annoyed at him. He was annoyed at me. Like he left the state, I left the state. We came back like, it was like not, you know, like an easy story necessarily. Like, and also like, he’s like, like a good friend now. And that experience changed me. And it was, it took my, my other friend being like, no, like, this changes tonight. Or I’m thinking about friends that I know that have like fallen into addiction. And then because of that lost jobs then because of that, like lost housing and like, how do you like continue to show up for them and take care of them and love them.

(20m 56s):
Like even in the midst of addiction recovery, like relapse, there aren’t any like easy, clear cut like answers. And also I try to start with like, if I put love at the center and not this sort of just sort of touchy feely emotion of love, but like embodied love at the center of this. Like what are some ways that I can continue to show up for the people who I’ve known for a long time? The people who are crossing my path today, the people who I’m, who I’m, who I might meet in the future, the people that I share a city with. And it’s like, it’s, there’s not always the right answer and it’s definitely not always easy, but like, can you do something?

(21m 40s):
And it just like, it keeps coming back to like, it takes practice. So start wherever you are, like start practicing there and then try to take like one small step outside of your comfort zone. You can start by giving up Harry Potter. Like if you, I just, I was like listening back to, to a podcast episode I was on, I was like, you won’t stop reading Harry Potter. You think you’re gonna resist fascism or like confront the police or hide the Jews or the immigrants or like, or get trans people their medication. Like no, you won’t, you won’t, you won’t put on a book. Yeah, you are, you are literally watching Voldemort take over and you can’t even watch the, you can’t even learn the lesson from the book that you refuse to stop reading.

(22m 21s):
Yeah. Jesus. The Queer Theology podcast Is just one of many things that we do at Queer Theology dot com, which provides resources, community, and inspiration for LBTQ, Christians and straight cisgender supporters. To dive into more of the action, visit us at Queer Theology dot com. You can also connect with us online on Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr, and Instagram. We’ll see you next week.

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