TCC Podcast #268: Creating Captivating Stories with Neuroscience, Developing a More Complex Client Avatar, and Networking as an Introvert with Geoff Kullman

Geoff Kullman is our guest for the 268th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast. Geoff is a direct-response copywriter and brand strategist who helps online entrepreneurs and personal brands tell better stories and make more money. Geoff breaks down how he uses neuroscience and psychology to write impactful copy that converts. Here’s all the things we talk about: The common denominator for copywriters and other writers. Geoff’s journey from devout pastor to direct-response copywriter. The importance of showcasing your abilities and talents within your website and business. How to make niching your own and work for you. The framework that takes people from prospect to customer. How to break down the 6-step framework for strong emails and sales pages. The difference between prompt and pitch and why it matters. Trauma-informed marketing and how to write from a place of empathy. Why the marketing world is shifting and how we can adapt to the changes. How to be more intentional about your client avatar. Finding your brand voice and helping your clients find theirs. Where most copywriters go wrong when creating ideal client avatars. What to leave out of emails to make them more compelling and connect with your audience on a deeper level. The impact neuroscience has on the words we write and why they convert. The psychology of why social proof works so well. What chemicals need to be released during the conversion process and in what order. Can you network as an introvert? Dealing with a scarcity mindset and making the shift to an abundant mindset. If you want to learn more about the psychology behind copywriting, be sure to tune into this episode. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Geoff’s website Geoff’s podcast Gabby’s website Episode 89 Episode 232   Full Transcript: Kira:  When you first started copywriting, you probably learned about creating a client avatar and all about storytelling, but what if you could take it a step further and tell stories that could make an even stronger impact? Our guest for the 268th episode of the Copywriter Club is Geoff Kullman. Geoff uses the power of neuroscience and psychology to create a deeper, more meaningful connection with people, and today I am joined by my co-host Gabby Jackson. How's it going? Gabby? Gabby:  It's going well. How are you? Kira:  Doing really well, Gabby. So you are on our team, we have had so many people in our audience asked to hear more about our team members, and I want to introduce you today just so everyone can get to know you a little bit better. So why don't you just kick off with how you heard about the Copywriter Club and what you do on the team? Gabby:  So, yes, I am super excited to be here. I discovered the Copywriter Club by wanting to find out more information about copywriting in general, and I was all about podcasts, still am all about podcasts, and I just typed in copywriting. This podcast was the first one to pop up, and I started binging episode after episode, and I decided I have to be part of this community, this club, how do I get in? Kira:  No, wait, when was that, Gabby? Gabby:  That was probably last August or September, yeah, so it's been a little over a year. Kira:  Yeah. I remember when we first met you in the underground on our first ... our meet and greet call with you, and we met you, and you just had such great energy that Rob and I were texting each other, we're like, "We have to figure out a way to get Gabby on our team so we can work with her." We were lucky enough that you joined the team, and so what do you do today on the team? Gabby:  So, on the team I handle a lot of the social media aspects, whether that mean graphics or captions, some email writing, podcast show notes and introductions, and some Pinterest tasks as well. Kira:  Yeah, and the cool thing about today is that Gabby actually works on these. We call them interjections, this is basically our commentary that we add to every episode, and Gabby and Rosie work on these every week. So Gabby, maybe you can give us some insight into how you put these together today, and to share your process real quick. Gabby:  Yeah. I love putting these together because I feel like I get an inside scoop before everybody else. So I'll listen through the interview, and I'm really just jotting down anything that sounds kind of intriguing to me. I feel like everybody on the team is a little bit the same in what we like to listen to, and copywriters in general so I'll write down anything that sounds interesting. Then I'll kind of lay it out in bullet points so that way it's easy for everybody to read, kind of go in through different points of the podcast, and then you all make your comments, and we'll kind of just go through and clean everything up, take out any extra language that maybe we don't need, and then- Kira:  All the ums. All the ums. Gabby:  Yeah, exactly. I wasn't going to say, but all the ums, and yeahs, or whatever it is, and then we'll go from there. Kira:  All right, so today's extra special that we have you here to talk through this interview with Geoff, since you worked on the background and put this all together. Before we jump in let's talk about our sponsor. Shockingly, this episode is sponsored by the Copywriter Club, the Copywriter Club In Real Life. We are so excited that this year we are able to get back to an IRL event in Nashville, Tennessee. We just signed the contract with the hotel, and so we finally have the dates. We can announce Sunday, the 27th, we'll kick off with our think tank retreat, and then we'll kick off the official event Monday the 28th, and run the 28th, the 29th, and then we will have a VIP event on the 30th. So we're so excited to get together in person because last year it was virtual, and this year it's all about seeing old friends and making new friends. Gabby, I'm just curious, because you've worked on the event behind the scenes, you were part of (N)IRL this past year, but just why are you excited to attend this year? What have you heard about it that makes you most excited? Gabby:  Oh, my gosh, I seriously continuously happy dance just because I'm excited to actually meet so many copywriters in person. I think that's the great thing about in person events is you can really just focus all your attention on the speakers, and the people that are there, there's no distractions. I think it's just going to be such a great time to leave the house, and be able to interact with so many people who are trying to grow their businesses too. Kira:  All right, so if you are listening and you have any interest in attending this event, or just learning more about it, you can jump to our website, go to the copywriterclub.com\tccirl-2022, or just check our show notes and click on the link. We'll have the link and the show notes of this episode so you can check out all the details about the event, and we can hopefully see you there this March. All right, now let's get into the episode. Geoff Kullman:  You know, I always loved writing. I was one of those kids, the more I say this to other people the more I feel less alone, and there's more of us copywriters who came up this way, who were this way as kids, but I was always the kid, the shy kid that hid behind my mom's leg. Whenever someone would try to talk to me I'd just cower behind her, find safety behind her, and it really wasn't ... whenever someone would try to talk to me I wouldn't have anything to say, and it wasn't until I got into school and discover this thing called reading and writing that I began to actually find a voice. I didn't basically ... I basically didn't speak until I was five years old, until I found that I could write what I was thinking. Later on in life I discovered or was told this line that words make worlds, which is basically what I was able to do. I didn't talk, but once I could write it out I would create these fantastic worlds where I was a hero, where everyone was lifting me up on their shoulders, where I'd win the game, and all that. So that love for writing started really, really, really early for me, and again, I feel like the more I talk about it, the more people say, "Yeah, me too," that that's something of a common denominator between us writers and copywriters. I took that love and enjoyment of writing, and basically then found a way to turn it into a career, in a roundabout way into a career. First, I became, believe it or not, a pastor. I was a youth pastor then a regular pastor, but what I always thought as was basically this unique way to create content that I always got to write and create content throughout the week. I got to hang out with people, and help people through life, and all that, and that was all good, but really what I loved was I got to investigate, and I got to write content multiple times a week, which then when I left the church because I no longer was a fit, I lost my faith and all that, that's a whole other story, but I found I still had this transferable skill to take me from that content creation piece that I loved. I could actually still do it outside of my old profession where I could now write for other people, tell their stories, help them get clear on that story that's going to draw their audience in. It seems like a weird progression, but it was a natural one to go from that church space into this copywriting space because those skills, those interests, and those things that I love were still highly transferable from one to the next. Rob:  I really like this idea, I've heard it before, but not in a while that you bring up the words make worlds. I'm curious as a kid, what were the worlds you were making? Tell us about one of them. How did you do that?