19: Why Didn't Rome Rise Again? An Interview with Professor Walter Scheidel
May 18, 2017
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Professor Walter Scheidel discusses the lack of recurring empires in Europe, which led to the rise of Europe and the Great Divergence. The podcast explores the factors behind the success of the Roman Empire, the challenges of Mongol state-building in Europe, and the concept and timing of the 'great divergence' between Europe and the rest of the world.
The absence of a recurring empire in Western Europe after the fall of Rome led to a break in political unity and economic integration, contributing to the rise of Northwestern Europe.
Geographical factors, particularly the distance from the Eurasian steppe and the absence of large-scale steppe empires, prevented the establishment of lasting empires in Europe, perpetuating political fragmentation.
Deep dives
The Fall of Rome and the Great Divergence
In this podcast episode, Professor Walter Scheidel discusses his research on the fall of the Roman Empire and its connection to the Great Divergence. Scheidel argues that there was no comprehensive empire in Western Europe after the fall of Rome, unlike other parts of the world such as China and the Middle East where empires tended to rise and fall repeatedly. The absence of a dominant empire in Western Europe led to a break in political unity and economic integration, which ultimately contributed to the economic and political rise of Northwestern Europe. Scheidel examines various factors that played a role in the success of the Roman Empire, including the combination of imperial power and a susceptible periphery. He also explores counterfactual scenarios to highlight key junctures where the potential for reestablishing an empire in Europe may have existed. Additionally, Scheidel delves into the concept of the Great Divergence, which refers to the economic and military superiority of Northwestern Europe and North America in the modern era. He analyzes different explanations for the Great Divergence, such as trade, institutional factors, and resources like those derived from the New World. Scheidel's research raises questions about the role of empire and its impact on economic development and global power dynamics.
The Role of Ideology and Geographic Factors
Scheidel explores the role of ideology and geographical factors in the rise and fall of empires. While ideology, such as the belief in single-state rule, has been important in maintaining political unity in parts of the world like China, Scheidel emphasizes that this ideology often arises as a consequence of political unity, rather than driving it. He looks at ecological and geographical factors, particularly regarding the Eurasian steppe, as significant drivers of state formation. The symbiotic relationship between sedentary agricultural societies and nomadic confederations created a constant push and pull dynamic, leading to the rise and fall of empires over thousands of years. Scheidel highlights that in contrast to regions like China or the Middle East, Europe's distance from the Eurasian steppe and the absence of similarly large-scale steppe empires helped perpetuate political fragmentation and prevent the establishment of large, lasting empires.
Exploring Potential Junctures for Empire
Scheidel discusses possible junctures throughout history where the reestablishment of an empire in Europe could have occurred. He examines historical events such as Justinian's attempt to restore the Roman Empire in the 6th century and the Mongol Empire's expansion into Europe in the 13th century. However, Scheidel argues that factors such as limited resources, internal conflicts, environmental stress, and the absence of pre-existing political institutions hindered the success and longevity of these attempts. He also considers the potential for empire-building during the reign of Charlemagne, the Arab invasions, and the Mongol invasions, but concludes that none of these situations presented credible counterfactuals that could have led to a significant and lasting empire in Europe.
The Great Divergence and Economic Development
Scheidel examines the concept of the Great Divergence, which refers to the substantial economic and industrial development that occurred in Northwestern Europe and North America, leading to their global dominance. He raises questions about the timing and causes of the Great Divergence, acknowledging varying perspectives among economists and historians. Scheidel argues that regardless of the specific timing, an absence of universal empire in Europe was a crucial condition for the Great Divergence to take place. He highlights the importance of counterfactual analysis in understanding causation, particularly in relation to the absence of empire and its impact on economic development. Scheidel's research sheds light on the complex interplay between political unity, economic integration, and the rise of global powers.
Why didn't Rome rise again? Everywhere else in the world, the appearance of one great empire was marked by their recurrent resurgence, but in Europe it happened only once. Professor Walter Scheidel of Stanford University - the author of numerous outstanding books on Rome and beyond, most recently "The Great Leveler", on the history of economic inequality - argues that this lack of recurring empires is what laid the groundwork for the eventual rise of Europe, the Great Divergence, that underpins the modern world of today.
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