C. Thi Nguyen, a philosopher focused on the implications of games in our lives, joins the discussion to uncover why games are vital to human experience. He delves into the significance of intrinsic vs. extrinsic motivations in play, contrasting striving play with achievement play. Nguyen offers a nuanced look at the melting pot of genuine games versus gamification, highlighting how this shapes our understanding of agency. The conversation also touches on the nostalgic revival of arcade games and critiques traditional versus modern tabletop role-playing games.
Games serve as a vital lens into understanding our personalities and social dynamics, revealing more about us than lengthy conversations.
The podcast contrasts intrinsic and extrinsic motivations in play, emphasizing the importance of valuing the experience over mere achievements.
Gamification can enhance engagement in various contexts but may lead to negative consequences when imposed, undermining the spirit of genuine play.
Deep dives
The Significance of Games in Human Experience
Games are deeply embedded in human culture, as they have been a fundamental aspect of our existence throughout history. They provide insights into our personalities, revealing more about individuals in a few hours of play than lengthy discussions may. Engaging in games fosters connections among players, often enhancing social bonds through shared experiences and challenges. In this context, games can be seen not just as entertainment but also as a means of exploring personal identity and social dynamics.
Understanding Play through Perspectives
The conversation distinguishes between two interpretations of the popular saying, 'whoever dies with the most toys wins.' One perspective encourages playful exploration of experiences and diversity in interactions, while the opposing view highlights an unhealthy obsession with material accumulation and competition. This contrast exemplifies the essential debate surrounding playful engagement versus outcome orientation, emphasizing the importance of enjoying the process of play rather than fixating solely on achievements. By recognizing the mental states achieved during play, individuals can better appreciate the value of the activities beyond the end results.
Categories of Play: Intrinsic vs. Extrinsic
The podcast discusses four key types of play, namely intrinsic achievement, extrinsic achievement, intrinsic striving, and extrinsic striving play. Intrinsic achievement play focuses on the joy of winning, whereas extrinsic achievement play emphasizes the external rewards that victory brings. On the other hand, intrinsic striving play values the experience and process of play itself, while extrinsic striving play looks for benefits that come from the activity. These distinctions help individuals understand their motivations in play, delineating between enjoying the game for its own sake and playing for external rewards.
The Impact of Gamification in Society
The podcast addresses the concept of gamification, which applies gaming elements in non-game contexts, such as education and workplaces. Although these practices can enhance engagement, they may also lead to negative consequences when imposed on individuals involuntarily, stripping away the spirit of play. An example discussed is the gamified work environment at Disney, where the approach resulted in increased injuries and dissatisfaction among employees. This highlights the distinction between voluntary engagement in games and forced structures that masquerade as gaming, which ultimately detracts from genuine play.
The Future of Play and Personal Experience
The conversation concludes with reflections on the broader potential of games and play in society, encouraging individuals to seek fulfillment through meaningful struggles and deep engagement in activities. The concept of value capture emerges as a critical theme, exploring how metrics and external validations can undermine the joy of play. The notion that life could evolve into an expansive form of striving play once practical challenges are resolved paves the way for considering games as central to a fulfilling existence. Ultimately, these insights call for a balance between outcome-oriented pursuits and the intrinsic value found in the processes of engaging play.
Games have always been central to the human experience, shaping the way we think, interact, and understand the world. This week, as part of our Authors in August series, David welcomes back philosopher C. Thi Nguyen to explore the deeper implications of games in our lives. From ancient pastimes to modern video games, we delve into why games matter, how they reflect our agency, and what they teach us about ourselves. With his book Games: Agency as Art, Nguyen reveals the profound ways games act as a form of artistic expression and how they can even influence the way we navigate life’s challenges. Whether you’re a dedicated gamer or simply curious about the philosophical underpinnings of play, this conversation offers insights that extend far beyond the gaming table.
Also, this is a reminder that our August Mailbag episode drops this Saturday. Whether you’re on the road for Labor Day Weekend or just relaxing at home, be sure to tune in, our 106th consecutive monthly mailbag will be there for you!
(1:34) Intro C.Thi Nguen
(4:51) Why we play games
(11:58) What does it mean to play a game?
(19:13) Striving Play vs. Achievement Play
(31:21) A game that people think is not a game?
(34:43) What's not a game people think is a game?
(54:13) Buy Sell or Hold
Producer: Desirée Jones
Get the Snipd podcast app
Unlock the knowledge in podcasts with the podcast player of the future.
AI-powered podcast player
Listen to all your favourite podcasts with AI-powered features
Discover highlights
Listen to the best highlights from the podcasts you love and dive into the full episode
Save any moment
Hear something you like? Tap your headphones to save it with AI-generated key takeaways
Share & Export
Send highlights to Twitter, WhatsApp or export them to Notion, Readwise & more
AI-powered podcast player
Listen to all your favourite podcasts with AI-powered features
Discover highlights
Listen to the best highlights from the podcasts you love and dive into the full episode