Beyond UX Design PMs Are People Too: Stakeholders Are Not the Enemy With Thomas Stokes & Lawton Pybus
Designers love talking about empathy… Just not for the people they work with. This week, we talk about why empathy has to extend beyond users and how you can apply familiar UX research techniques to better understand your teammates, PMs, and stakeholders.
If empathy is such a core UX skill, why are so many designers bad at applying it to the people they work with?
Designers love talking about empathy for users. But if your research findings are getting ignored or your design recommendations keep getting watered down, it might be time to turn that empathy inward.
Thomas and Lawton join me from Drillbit Labs. They both have PhDs in human factors, and they help product teams make smarter decisions with less drama. This week, they make a pretty compelling case: if you’re not applying your research mindset to the people you work with, you’re not doing your job.
We talk about how to use stakeholder interviews, power mapping, one-on-ones, and intentional relationship-building to get unstuck—and what to do when your best ideas are still getting shot down. If you’re tired of saying “they just don’t get it,” this episode is for you.
Topics:
• 03:04 – The Importance of Empathy in Software Development
• 03:25 – Guest Introduction: Thomas and Lawton from Drill Bit Labs
• 04:27 – Empathy for Team Members: A Deeper Dive
• 07:10 – The Role of Human Factors in Team Dynamics
• 16:06 – Practical Tips for Building Empathy with Stakeholders
• 20:49 – The Importance of Stakeholder Relationships
• 36:51 – Tools and Tactics for Effective Team Collaboration
• 38:39 – Understanding Empathy in Decision Making
• 39:33 – De-biasing Techniques and Their Importance
• 40:23 – Spotting and Naming Cognitive Biases
• 43:05 – The Value of One-on-Ones
• 45:37 – Remote Work and Maintaining Human Connection
• 54:06 – Balancing Personal Investment in Work Decisions
Helpful Links:
• Connect with Thomas on LinkedIn
• Connect with Lawton on LinkedIn
• Depth Newsletter
• Drill Bit Labs
—
Thanks for listening! We hope you dug today’s episode. If you liked what you heard, be sure to like and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts! And if you really enjoyed today’s episode, why don’t you leave a five-star review? Or tell some friends! It will help us out a ton.
If you haven’t already, sign up for our email list. We won’t spam you. Pinky swear.
• Get a FREE audiobook AND support the show
• Support the show on Patreon
• Check out show transcripts
• Check out our website
• Subscribe on Apple Podcasts
• Subscribe on Spotify