The Ever-Present Challenge of Escaping Poverty (with Noah Smith)
Aug 5, 2024
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Economist Noah Smith, known for his insights on poverty and economic development, discusses the never-ending battle against poverty. He likens poverty to an elemental foe and emphasizes the importance of technological progress in combating it. Smith critiques the nostalgia for past eras, arguing that life wasn't necessarily better, and expresses skepticism towards the degrowth movement for its potential to undermine advancements. The conversation also touches on the paradox of modern economic development and the importance of maintaining human connections in a tech-driven world.
Poverty is inherently a universal challenge for humanity, viewed as our 'elemental foe' amidst constant environmental threats.
Industrial modernity, characterized by technological advancements and infrastructure, is crucial for alleviating poverty and enhancing living standards.
The romanticization of pre-industrial societies overlooks the harsh realities of poverty and hardship typical of those times.
Deep dives
Poverty as the Elemental Foe
Poverty is viewed as a fundamental challenge faced by humanity, described metaphorically as the 'elemental foe.' This concept ties back to the notion that humans exist in a universe where the environment often works against survival, naturally leading to a state of poverty. The discussion emphasizes that without significant human effort to build infrastructure and systems, society would revert to conditions similar to wild animals, highlighting that poverty is not only a human issue but a universal one. The conversation illustrates that while modern amenities exist, the struggle against poverty continues as a central issue for humanity.
The Default State of Poverty
Humanity’s default state is one of poverty, with civilizations throughout history often struggling to secure enough resources for survival. This condition persisted even among the wealthy classes, as even kings in previous centuries were frequently plagued by diseases and malnourishment. The concept stresses that modern living standards far surpass those of historical figures, thus indicating that the human experience has consistently been marred by the threat of poverty. This stark recognition of our historical context serves to illuminate the importance of technology and innovation in overcoming these natural limitations.
Industrial Modernity and Technological Progress
Industrial modernity is a term used to describe the complex technological systems that support contemporary living standards and help mitigate poverty. This includes a vast network of infrastructure, such as roads, factories, and agricultural systems, which work collaboratively to maintain production and distribution efficiently. The advancement of technology drastically reduces the amount of human labor required to produce goods, illustrating how modern economies thrive on automation and specialization. Consequently, this reliance on industrial systems emphasizes the fragility of our current prosperity, hinging on continuous innovation and efficiency.
Romantic Fantasies of the Past
There is a tendency to romanticize past lifestyles, often viewing pre-industrial or earlier societies as idyllic, simpler, and happier. However, this idealization ignores the harsh realities faced by those who lived in such conditions, emphasizing that poverty and hardship were rampant. The discussion highlights a contrast between nostalgic views of the past and the genuine struggles that prevailed, such as famine, disease, and lack of modern conveniences. It further critiques how this nostalgia can cloud judgment, leading to unrealistic expectations of returning to 'simpler' times without recognizing the advancements and choices available in contemporary society.
The Trade-offs of Progress
Modern industrial society offers substantial material benefits, yet it comes with trade-offs that can lead to feelings of alienation and disconnection. The conversation addresses how advancements in technology and employment have reshaped social dynamics, often replacing close-knit community ties with relationships based on professional affiliations. The implications of globalization and individualism lead to varied life choices, yet they may detract from the sense of belonging to a community. Recognizing these changes fosters a deeper understanding of the balance necessary between personal aspirations and maintaining meaningful relationships in today’s world.
The universe, points out economist Noah Smith, is always trying to kill us, whether through asteroids hurtling through space or our every-few-hours hunger pains. Why, then, should we expect anything but a gravitational pull toward poverty? Listen as Smith explains to EconTalk's Russ Roberts why he believes that poverty will always be our "elemental foe," and how what he calls "industrial modernity" is key to keeping poverty at bay. They also discuss Smith's impatience with the "degrowth movement," which he thinks jeopardizes our gains in the fight against the elemental foe.
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