On the Nose

"Between the Covers" Live: Dionne Brand and Adania Shibli

Oct 2, 2024

In this engaging discussion, renowned writer Dionne Brand, celebrated for her exploration of colonial narratives, teams up with Adania Shibli, who examines themes of home and empire impact. They delve into reimagining belonging beyond nation-states, confronting colonial erasures of everyday life. The conversation also critiques the failures of liberal democracy, especially in the context of Israeli-Palestinian tensions. Brand and Shibli highlight the transformative power of writing, calling for collective narratives that foster liberation and challenge oppressive legacies.

01:08:22

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Episode guests

Dionne Brand

Adania Shibli

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Episode notes

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Quick takeaways

Dionne Brand and Adania Shibli discuss 'home' as a complex, ethical concept shaped by historical violence rather than a fixed location.

The authors emphasize the importance of reimagining narratives to include multifaceted lived experiences that resist imperialistic interpretations.

Deep dives

The Concept of Home in Literature

The discussion emphasizes the complex nature of 'home' as portrayed in literary works, particularly in the novels of Adania Shibley and Dion Brand. Shibley reflects on her experiences of restlessness, noting that for her, Palestine represents an ethical relationship rather than a traditional homeland. This perspective challenges conventional notions of safety associated with home, leaning towards an understanding of home as a temporary state rather than a fixed location. Brand further complicates this by arguing that the term 'home' is burdened with historical and social implications that often perpetuate violence, thus advocating for a more nuanced and open-ended interpretation of the concept.

Intro

3min

Exploring Belonging and Identity

11min

Navigating the Door of No Return: Maps, Memory, and Narrative

2min

Reimagining Narratives Beyond Colonialism

22min

Exploring the Language of Oppression: Human Animals and Colonialism

5min

The Failures of Liberal Democracy

22min

The Transformative Power of Writing

2min

For this live taping of the literary podcast Between the Covers—recorded at Jewish Currents’s daylong event on September 15th and presented in partnership with On the Nose—host David Naimon convened a conversation with renowned writers Dionne Brand and Adania Shibli about contesting colonial narratives. Rooted in their long-standing literary practice and in the demands of this moment of genocide, they discuss the vexed meanings of home, how to recover the everydayness of life erased by empire, and what it means to imagine togetherness beyond the nation-state.

This episode was produced by David Naimon, with music by Alicia Jo Rabins. Thanks also to Jesse Brenneman for additional editing and to Nathan Salsburg for the use of his song “VIII (All That Were Calculated Have Passed).

Texts Mentioned and Additional Resources:

Minor Detail by Adania Shibli

A Map to the Door of No Return: Notes to Belonging by Dionne Brand

Civil Service by Claire Schwartz

The Blue Clerk by Dionne Brand

Adania Shibli in conversation with Hisham Matar at the 2024 Hay Festival

Adania Shibli in conversation with Madeleine Thien and Layli Long Soldier at the Barnard Center for Research on Women

“Writing Against Tyranny and Toward Liberation,” Dionne Brand

“Dionne Brand: Nomenclature — New and Collected Poems,” Between the Covers

“Adania Shibli: Minor Detail,” Between the Covers

“prologue for now - Gaza,” Dionne Brand, Jewish Currents

“Duty,” Daniel Mendelsohn, New York Review of Books