The one with TIAA Chief Marketing and Communications Officer Micky Onvural about the lessons learned in going from CMO to CEO and CEO to CMO.

In this episode Micky, the one-time CEO of Bonobos, and I talk about her experiences on both sides of what’s all too-often a divide, what’s missing in the CEO/CMO conversation, and why company culture should be seen as a pre-requisite for growth.

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