Highlights: #165 – Anders Sandberg on war in space, whether civilisations age, and the best things possible in our universe
Nov 1, 2023
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Guest Anders Sandberg, expert on war in space, civilizations, and the best things possible in our universe, discusses amazing future possibilities like brain emulation, humanity's future in an infinite space, absence of alien intelligence, and limitations on achieving grand futures for civilizations.
The possibility of wars in an advanced civilization that has settled the galaxy, driven by radical negative utilitarian civilizations seeking to remove resources from others and the dynamics of warfare in expanded space.
The potential of black holes to provide up to 40% of the mass energy for future civilizations, making them a highly effective and sustainable energy source.
The concept of humble futures versus grand futures, where individuals may pursue simple, sustainable lifestyles or grand futures involving space colonization and technological advancements, and the challenge of balancing these different visions for an open future.
Deep dives
The Potential Amazing Futures of Humanity
One possible future is where humanity achieves sustainable technological advancements, preserves half the planet as a wilderness, maintains high material standards in a sustainable way, and expands to other solar systems and galaxies. Another future envisions brain emulation, where humans transfer their consciousness into software, allowing for cultural development in the virtual space and the potential for a portable humanity living on a small black square on Earth. The podcast also explores the idea that value might emerge in different steps, and there could be undiscovered levels of value waiting to be explored in the future.
The Likelihood of Wars in the Future
The podcast debates the possibility of wars in an advanced civilization that has settled the galaxy. While the rationality and motives for war in such a scenario are uncertain, it is proposed that a radical negative utilitarian civilization might engage in conflict to remove resources from other civilizations causing pain and suffering. The dynamics of warfare in an expanded space are complex, with possibilities of both defense-dominant situations and opportunities for conflicts within solar systems. The peacefulness of the largest scales of the universe and the difficulty in communication between different parts of civil society might lead to a relatively peaceful coexistence at the cosmic level.
Extracting Energy in the Far Future
In the far future, when stars have burned out, alternative sources of energy become crucial. Fusion energy from brown dwarfs and the formation of red dwarf stars by random collisions are potential options. However, the most intriguing suggestion is using black holes to extract energy. Black holes with their accretion disks could provide up to 40% of the mass energy for future civilizations, making them a highly effective and sustainable energy source.
The Unusual Position of Humanity in the Universe
The uniqueness and early existence of humanity in the universe is examined. It is proposed that if life spreads and complex beings dominate most of the accessible universe in the future, our current position might seem peculiar and early. This could be due to the possibility that organic life thrives around red dwarf stars, which could limit widespread habitability. Alternatively, the "grabby aliens" theory suggests that we find ourselves in an unusual position because civilizations that expand throughout the universe may prevent the emergence of new intelligent life, making our current timeframe significant.
The Lifespan and Collapse of Civilizations
The notion of civilizations collapsing over time is challenged in the podcast. While historical patterns indicate the rise and fall of civilizations, analysis suggests that the likelihood of collapse does not increase with time. Rather than aging or decadence leading to collapse, civilizations may succumb to bad luck. The possibility of multiple copies or backup civilizations is proposed as a means to mitigate against this unpredictability.
The Choice between Humble and Grand Futures
The podcast delves into the concept of humble futures versus grand futures. It suggests that while some individuals may prefer simple, sustainable, and modest lifestyles, allowing for cultural development and personal fulfillment, others may pursue grand futures involving the colonization of space and technological advancements. The challenge lies in balancing these different visions, avoiding conflicts between different societies, and ensuring an open future with a diversity of possibilities and virtues.
These aren't necessarily the most important, or even most entertaining parts of the interview — and if you enjoy this, we strongly recommend checking out the full episode:
