105 - Breeding Future Statesmen: Interview w/ Kevin Dolan on the EXIT podcast
Feb 26, 2025
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Kevin Dolan, founder of the Exit Group and the Natal Conference, dives deep into historical dynamics influencing modern birth rates. He discusses ancient Sparta's demographic shifts and how their societal structures shaped political power. The conversation shifts to Augustus and his family policies aimed at revitalizing Rome. Dolan also explores the intersections of Christianity and demographic changes, shedding light on how the church influenced family dynamics. His insights draw provocative parallels between ancient customs and contemporary societal challenges.
The transformative men's retreat in Greece focuses on enhancing classical leadership skills through historical exploration and personal growth opportunities.
Historical responses to declining birth rates in Sparta and Rome highlight the critical relationship between population stability and military-political power.
The rise of Christianity in the Roman Empire illustrates how demographic shifts influenced societal roles and community dynamics, contrasting with pagan practices.
Deep dives
Invitation to Men's Leadership Retreat
A transformative men's leadership retreat is set to take place in Greece from June 8th to 15th, 2025, organized by Cost of Glory. This retreat promises to enhance participants' classical leadership skills, focusing on rhetoric, a crucial skill valued by historical figures such as Caesar and Cicero. Apart from engaging in skill-building activities, participants will explore significant historical sites in Greece, including the birthplace of democracy in Athens and the oracle of Delphi. Past attendees have shared that the experience fosters lasting friendships and personal growth through deep discussions and shared meals.
Population Decline in Ancient Societies
The discussion centers on how birth rate declines have historically prompted responses from statesmen in ancient civilizations, including Sparta and Rome. Recognizing that population stability is vital for military and political power, leaders like Aristotle attributed the decline in Sparta to an inability to reproduce, which diminished the state's strength. Comparatively, Augustus of Rome, after a civil war that decimated the population, implemented policies to encourage marriage and childbearing among the citizenry to combat potential demographic collapse. This reflects a pattern across different cultures, where the rulers aimed to address declining birth rates to maintain societal strength.
Spartan Demographic Concerns
Sparta's state structure severely limited citizenship to a small warrior elite, which ultimately led to their decline as the system relied on maintaining a healthy population of citizen-soldiers. Aristotle's concept of 'oliganthropy' highlighted how the exclusivity of Spartan citizenship bred demographic vulnerabilities, as fewer citizens could lead to a decline in military capability. Historical evidence illustrates how, during key conflicts, like the Persian Wars, the lack of reproductive success contributed to Sparta's eventual political irrelevance. The cyclical nature of external threats and internal limitations on reproduction created lasting impacts on their societal structure.
Augustus's Reforms in Rome
In response to the demographic challenges facing Rome after significant loss during civil wars, Emperor Augustus introduced laws aimed at incentivizing marriage and childbirth among citizens. These policies, however, faced initial resistance from the elite who found them intrusive and detrimental to their lifestyle, showcasing a disconnect between state goals and personal desires. Nonetheless, Augustus's reforms, which included penalties for childlessness, aimed to revive traditional Roman family values and bolster the population, particularly among the equestrian class which constituted a new political elite. Such reforms reflect a broader societal shift as Augustus sought to align personal life with state interests.
Christianity's Role in Population Dynamics
The rise of Christianity in the Roman Empire correlated with demographic shifts, as Christian doctrine prohibited practices such as abortion and infanticide, leading to higher birth rates among Christians. This trend provided Christians with a numerical advantage over pagans in the empire, ultimately giving them a more significant role in society as they populated the community with new families. Historical analyses suggest that Christians' compassionate care during plagues contrasted with the abandonment common in pagan societies, further strengthening their community ties. As Christians outnumbered pagans, the demographic landscape of the empire began to shift, enriching the early church's influence.
Critique of Contemporary Natalism
Modern discussions about natalism often resonate with themes from ancient population management, revealing a divide between ideology and practical solutions to declining birth rates. Critics argue that purely economic incentives alone won't drive a cultural shift towards family formation, as genuine societal longing and personal connection to family legacy play crucial roles. Just as societies in antiquity sought to restore family values and moral imperatives, contemporary approaches must transcend materialist perspectives to reclaim a narrative that embraces familial bonds and cultural continuity. Successful future efforts require compelling a collective cultural narrative that prioritizes family and legacy alongside practical support for parenthood.
