Both the Russians and the Republicans have called Donald Trump's former foreign policy advisor Carter Page "an idiot".
It seems everyone has been able to manipulate him to do their bidding.
So is Carter Page an actual idiot or a Russian spy?
This is the fifth episode of Russia, If You're Listening.
Each week, host Matt Bevan brings the story of a character involved in the investigation.
You can get in touch at russia@abc.net.au.
Subscribe in Apple Podcasts or your favourite podcast app to find out how this story ends.
