Who Does What By How Much with Josh Seiden

The definition of success can change everything. Properly defined, you have an agile organization where each team member can contribute fully. Poorly defined, you have stagnant teams and users that don’t like the products. In this episode of the Unlearn Podcast, host Barry O'Reilly sits down with Josh Seiden, a sought-after designer, strategy consultant, and coach. Together, they explore the importance of understanding user behavior, how that behavior can be translated into goals, and how company alignment on Outcomes and Key Results can drive business outcomes. 

Josh Seiden has collaborated with top-tier brands such as PayPal, Johnson & Johnson, and 3M. His expertise lies in launching and building innovative products and services, as well as fostering agile and entrepreneurial mindsets within organizations. He is the author of “Outcomes Over Output” and co-author of “Who Does What By How Much,” "Sense and Respond," and "Lean UX," all cementing his reputation as a thought leader in the field of user-centered design and business strategy.

When User Experience Became Design

We know now that understanding how users will experience a product is a critical part of designing a new product, but back in the 90’s when Josh began his career in the industry, it was a radical idea. "A friend told me, 'We’re hiring designers here,' and I laughed, 'Why are you telling me this? I’m not a designer.' But that thing you’re doing here, we call that design," Seiden recalls. This unconventional designation became an entire industry, and his unconventional path to it meant he brought a unique perspective to the field of user experience design. Barry notes that this is a story that gets told again and again on the Unlearn podcast; that the conventional wisdom on how to find or become an expert is often wrong.

Don't Forget Why You’re Building What You’re Building 

Barry points out that companies often measure things like the speed of production, but forget to measure the consumer behavior change that would really demonstrate the value of the project. Josh explains that measurability is important over the life of a project, but keeping the focus on outcomes for actual people is the most important thing to track. This is the key premise of Outcomes over Output that answers the question: what is an outcome? Josh’s definition, “An Outcome is a measurable change in user behavior that creates value.” If you need to identify the outcome you should be measuring for your company, answer three questions: Who?, Does What?, and By How Much?

The Evolution of OKRs in Large Organizations

Design thinking works at the team level very easily, and as the industry developed the question became how to do it at scale? Objectives and Key Results (OKRs) have emerged as a tool for helping  large organizations work in agile ways. Josh explains how OKRs can be used to manage outcomes at scale: “The O is an objective. What's the big audacious goal? And then the KR is the result. How do you measure it? The key result. For most people who look at the system, they understand that [...] you want those Key Results to be outcomes." This way of thinking helps large enterprises maintain focus and drive impactful results by clearly defining and measuring success as it matters to the people using the product.

Read full show notes at BarryO'Reilly.com

Resources

Josh Seiden on the Web, LinkedIn, X, Medium