Leaked Our Gain or Our Loss?
Dec 2, 2025
Dr. Robert Redfield, a clinical virologist and former CDC director, shares his insights on the controversial origins of SARS-CoV-2. He discusses the potential implications of gain-of-function research, arguing that the virus might have been engineered. Redfield calls for a moratorium on such research and highlights the necessity for better biosecurity measures. He recounts his conflicts with Anthony Fauci about the origins investigation and argues that the scientific community must confront its moral responsibilities in high-risk research.
AI Snips
Chapters
Transcript
Episode notes
Redfield's Early Career Controversy
- Robert R. Redfield described being a rare interview subject with firsthand CDC experience and controversy from his career.
- He recalled being booed off a stage in Atlanta after presenting HIV findings that challenged prevailing views.
The Trade-Off Of Engineering Pathogens
- The episode frames gain-of-function as altering pathogens to learn how they work, which creates both potential defenses and new risks.
- Payne Lindsey emphasizes that the deadlier the engineered virus, the stronger the vaccine needed, raising ethical trade-offs.
Distinguishing Useful Versus Risky Research
- Francis Collins argues many beneficial biomedical advances are forms of gain-of experiments and should not be dismissed outright.
- He distinguishes routine gain-of techniques from risky work that enhances transmissibility or virulence of human pathogens.